Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Other problems or issues not covered by other troubleshooting topics.
christinney
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:30 am

Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby christinney » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:54 pm

Good Afternoon,

As you can see from the below, I have been having issues with the PMDG NGXU during crosswind landings. Looking on their forums quite a few others has experienced this.

PMDG lay the fault with Prepar3D. Is this something you are aware of? If so, any potential fix's?

Many thanks

CHris TInney


Chris,

This is a known issue in P3D that we have tried to get addressed with Lockheed Martin. For some reason when either the nose is held off or the aircraft is in a significant crab, the aircraft will accelerate out of control inside the sim. We are aware of the issue and it is under investigation to see if there is anything else we can do to try to eliminate it but currently it happens with a number of aircraft in the sim not just including PMDG aircraft.

Paul Gollnick
Customer & Product Support
PMDG Simulations, LLC
www.precisionmanuals.com


From: chris_tinney@hotmail.com
Sent: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:59:14 -0600
To: Product Support
Subject: Crosswind Landing issues
Good Evening. I have just completed my first significant wind speed crosswind landing at EIDW. This this process I touched down at 161FPM. The aircraft then suddenly gained very significant amounts of speed and went back into the air. After 4 bounces, and the use of max manual breaking I managed to get it to a stop.
I have seen on the forums some others have identified a similer issue in high crosswinds. This is the first time I have experienced it in the NGXu.
I utilized the previous NGX for several years, in all weathers including multiple max crosswind limit landings. I have never experienced this issue before.
I have looked back on the analysis section of P3D, it shows a stable 145knt IAS in the flare, the speed starts to fall off as normal, dropping to 142Knt. On touchdown however speed IAS rises to 153Knt, aircraft re-enters flight and speed slowly bleeds off again. On second touchdown speed rises to 157knt. Aircraft again takes flight and speed bleeds off.
On third touchdown speed reachs 163knt, same process, until finally on forth touch down speed reaches 171knt.
I would be interested in your thoughts on this and where you feel the fault may lie, likewise would be good to know if this is a bug you are working on.
Regards
Chris

Martyson
Posts: 6439
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby Martyson » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:41 pm

Most landings are crosswind.

How do you set up to test this?

How much of a crosswind?

Manual controls / throttle ?

Testing Auto-lands?

Landing weight (max/min)?

Are you using P3D weather or e.g., ActiveSky with gusts?
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

christinney
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:30 am

Re: Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby christinney » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:03 pm

HI Vaughn,

Are you from Lockheed Martin?

My question is more about the statemement from PMDG. The issue itself is not up for debate as PMDG have confirmed my findings. What I am keen to know is whether Lockheed Martin are actually aware of this issue and whether a fix is possible.

In answer you your points however:

Tested through multiple high strength crosswinds landings 20knt plus (up to crosswind limit 33knt)

Manual controls/ Throttle and does it on Autoland.

Cant recall the weights

Active sky with gust, and no it is not the gust. The speeds are much higher than the gust, also co-obborated by other NGXU users.

Regards

Chris

Martyson
Posts: 6439
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby Martyson » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:08 pm

Chris,

No, I am not from LM.

However, my post was directed at what I need to do to create the failure in P3D (to do test flights).
I have done a few PMDG flights.

Crosscheck : does it happen with other aircraft?
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

christinney
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:30 am

Re: Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby christinney » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:12 pm

Im afraid I dont know about other aircraft, other than... The previous PMDG 737NGX did not not it, never had this issue at all and used to love strong crosswind landings.

The NGXU is the only other aircraft I have used on P3D.

I find it a little strange that one PMDG product did it and the other dosnt, yet they indicate the fault lies with LM. I am going another CW landing at EGPH shortly where its blowing a gale! We shall see what happens....

Martyson
Posts: 6439
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby Martyson » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:28 pm

Im afraid I dont know about other aircraft, other than... The previous PMDG 737NGX did not not it, never had this issue at all and used to love strong crosswind landings.

The NGXU is the only other aircraft I have used on P3D.

I find it a little strange that one PMDG product did it and the other dosnt, yet they indicate the fault lies with LM. I am going another CW landing at EGPH shortly where its blowing a gale! We shall see what happens....
I am new to the PMDG737-NGXu just a couple test flights.
But I have had flights on other PMDG aircraft in other FSX/P3D.

Anyway, just wanted to know about how to recreate a test situation (including landing weight) for the PMDG737-800/900NGXu.
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

christinney
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:30 am

Re: Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby christinney » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:39 pm

Just to add to this this....

Test flight this evening into Frankfurt, landing 25C with a steady wind of 180 degrees 25knt.

738 (PMDG NGXU) used with a manual landing, flaps 30, weight 64400kg

All nicely lined up, bang on Vref plus 5 which was about 140 something... (cant remember exactly) As soon as I touch down, I get a huge boost of indicated air speed. Rising up to over 165knt. Groundspeed likewise rockets up and I need max manual breaking and full reverse to stop on a 3500m odd runway.

This is a real shame at the moment as nailing a crosswind landing is one of the real highlights of flight sim.

Martyson
Posts: 6439
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby Martyson » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:23 pm

Just to add to this this....

Test flight this evening into Frankfurt, landing 25C with a steady wind of 180 degrees 25knt.

738 (PMDG NGXU) used with a manual landing, flaps 30, weight 64400kg

All nicely lined up, bang on Vref plus 5 which was about 140 something... (cant remember exactly) As soon as I touch down, I get a huge boost of indicated air speed. Rising up to over 165knt. Groundspeed likewise rockets up and I need max manual breaking and full reverse to stop on a 3500m odd runway.

This is a real shame at the moment as nailing a crosswind landing is one of the real highlights of flight sim.

What did you use to set up weather e.g., ActiveSky saved data ?
Clouds, wet runway , temp. , clear sky etc?
ILS Approach or doing circuits?
Landing flaps selected?
Time of day (local).

Can you possibly do a short video of your approach with a scan of your panel gauges / MCP and PDF before touchdownt?
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

Mike Schroeter
Lockheed Martin
Posts: 306
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby Mike Schroeter » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:34 pm

Your previous comment is important to note:
The previous PMDG 737NGX did not not it, never had this issue at all and used to love strong crosswind landings.
I have not heard of, or experienced, this issue before today. It would be great to get verification if this issue is isolated to this particular aircraft, or even this particular developer. Also verify whether it occurs with Active Sky disabled.

Thanks,
Mike

olympic260
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:41 pm

Re: Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby olympic260 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:21 am

Your previous comment is important to note:
The previous PMDG 737NGX did not not it, never had this issue at all and used to love strong crosswind landings.
I have not heard of, or experienced, this issue before today. It would be great to get verification if this issue is isolated to this particular aircraft, or even this particular developer. Also verify whether it occurs with Active Sky disabled.

Thanks,
Mike
Mike there is a report made by us about this behavior. If you PM me I can give you more details.
Chris Makris
PMDG Technical support

christinney
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:30 am

Re: Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby christinney » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:49 pm

Hi Mike & Chris,

Thank you for both for being involved on this discussion today.

Please could you just give an idea on potential plans/ hot fixes around this once you have exchanged messages etc.

Please let me know if you wish me to conduct any further test's or provide additional info to assist.

Many thanks in advance for your time on this.

Regards

Chris Tinney

christinney
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:30 am

Re: Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby christinney » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:47 pm

Your previous comment is important to note:
The previous PMDG 737NGX did not not it, never had this issue at all and used to love strong crosswind landings.
I have not heard of, or experienced, this issue before today. It would be great to get verification if this issue is isolated to this particular aircraft, or even this particular developer. Also verify whether it occurs with Active Sky disabled.

Thanks,
Mike
Hi Mike, Just to confirm I did some tests this evening without Active Sky... (Had to remember how to use default P3D!) I can confirm this same issue occured. Again it was only with the PMDG NGXU. Tested with default aircraft and old NGX, no issues with them at all on crosswind landing.

Regards

Chris

Martyson
Posts: 6439
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby Martyson » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:29 am

My last flight PMDG737-900ERNGXu (ASA495) was into KSFO / Active Sky / [screenshot] and no problems landing there or any other airports so far as I have tested.
I do use FSUIPC (all axes/calibrations/buttons) for many years with all aircraft.

Anyone got a video of the main panel / gauges during the last 5nm of the approach and landing to show the problem?

Image
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

Martyson
Posts: 6439
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby Martyson » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:09 pm

Just wondering in PMDG737-NGXu
PMDG CDU / Options / Simulation page 2
Is
High Idle Flare
On or Off

Mine is Off
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

Martyson
Posts: 6439
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Crosswind landing - Flight model issues

Postby Martyson » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:56 am

Did another test flight this morning.
No problems with a manual (no autoland) approach and landing.
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)


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