Suggestion to all unofficial beta testers

Kosta · Post by **Kosta** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:29 am

Quote:
Quote from vgbaron on February 17, 2014, 13:54

I've been reading the various posts in this forum since 2.1 was released. I have a suggestion -

install the clean 2.1

install NOTHING else - NOTHING!

Set it up.

Now, if you get stutters, blurries, OOM's - you can blame it on LM.

If you don't - then install your add-ons - if you get stutters, etc - tell the developer - not LM.

I'm as guilty as the rest - tend to install and immediately load my fav's.

I think we, as a whole, can be very helpful to LM BUT ONLY if we report errors that are related to P3D2 - NOT any add-on.

There are some issues I've read about that appear to be specific to P3D but frankly, a great many of the posts are not LM's problem and serve only to confuse the issue.

Remember - they (LM) are mandated to support the platform - not what we add to it.

I still believe we are moving in the right direction.

Vic

I don't know about others, but this is exactly what I did!

I didn't even attempt on installing ANY addons. None. Nada. Not even FSUIPC, EZCA or whatever I usually port first.

I installed, loaded the sim, went into graphics department, set what I wanted for testing and went flying. That's it. Problems appeared.

NLPER · Post by **NLPER** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:32 am

I established windows 8 from scratch and on pure system established pure prepar3d v 2.1 and I all the same receive the problems:

1) Problem with headlights

http://youtu.be/NleSAnN5dEw

2) Menu blinking

http://youtu.be/IwSGKMiuJKM

pscharff · Post by **pscharff** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:31 am

Quote:
Quote from vgbaron on February 17, 2014, 13:54

I've been reading the various posts in this forum since 2.1 was released. I have a suggestion -

install the clean 2.1

install NOTHING else - NOTHING!

Set it up.

Now, if you get stutters, blurries, OOM's - you can blame it on LM.

If you don't - then install your add-ons - if you get stutters, etc - tell the developer - not LM.

I'm as guilty as the rest - tend to install and immediately load my fav's.

I think we, as a whole, can be very helpful to LM BUT ONLY if we report errors that are related to P3D2 - NOT any add-on.

There are some issues I've read about that appear to be specific to P3D but frankly, a great many of the posts are not LM's problem and serve only to confuse the issue.

Remember - they (LM) are mandated to support the platform - not what we add to it.

I still believe we are moving in the right direction.

Vic

+1

Patric

Snave · Post by **Snave** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:08 am

Vic, bang-on, as usual.

There probably is a problem with P3D2.1 but the causes, temporary workrounds or even the persistent conditions under which it occurs are being masked - smothered - under the decrepit ineptitude of all those throwing any old crap into P3D 2.1 and expecting it to work, then failing to mention what they've done, added or changed, or full system specs.

At this point ANY NSI (non-standard installation) should NOT even be reported here. Go pester the developers of the addons. Far too few of the forum `names` here are posting in the correct fora.

That being said, there may be a small (tiny) virtue in having non-compatibilities being reported here, but not with any expectation of support by the LM team. They have enough problems on their plate, sorting the wheat from the chaff and attending to the genuine issues...

simmerhead · Post by **simmerhead** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:33 am

Quote:
Quote from Kosta on February 18, 2014, 02:29

I don't know about others, but this is exactly what I did!

I didn't even attempt on installing ANY addons. None. Nada. Not even FSUIPC, EZCA or whatever I usually port first.

I installed, loaded the sim, went into graphics department, set what I wanted for testing and went flying. That's it. Problems appeared.

Strange Kosta. I have almost the same computer as you, i7 2700K and GTX 580, and P3D v2.1 runs smooth and with minimal blurries with quite high settings. The only change I made from my troublesome v2.0 setup was to deselect VSynch and go from 30 fps to unlimited. I even run some very detailed Norwegian freeware scenery with 10m mesh, 100% custom traffic, detailed vector data, custom airports and FTX Global textures.

That said, your example of flying a fighter jet at 600-1000 kts will cause increasingly blurred textures on my system as well, but I have long since accepted that the FSX/ESP/P3D graphics engine will never be able to handle this kind of speed with detailed scenery.

Psybear · Post by **Psybear** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:36 am

Vic, Snave, precisely.

pracines · Post by **pracines** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:25 pm

FYI,

totally clean system install + totally clean P3D V2.1 install + max (or even close to max) sliders/settings in P3D 2.1 = OOM for everybody no matter what.

The solution is P3D 64 bit no matter what.

I have no idea why this even being debated, but its becoming a nightmare for LM.

Kosta · Post by **Kosta** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:40 pm

Going 64bit is only half of the solution. It's no solution driving the sim VAS usage up and up and up. First it needs to be optimized, so that when loaded it also stays there.

What I don't understand, with generic textures and autogen, why does VAS usage grow inside of 10 minutes from loaded up usage of some 2200mb up to 4000mb where it OOMs?

First get that in order, so that the usage doesn't grow like that, and then give it 64bit. It's no use letting the sim grow up to 20gb of VAS (I don't even know if it's possible...), just to see it slow down to the crawl because the system can't take it any more.

cyborgen · Post by **cyborgen** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:49 pm

Kosta + 1 !

Wouldn't be surprised if LM has already found the source of the problem. Some 2.1 fix probably knocked out a background garbage collection task (VAS address release).

torkermax · Post by **torkermax** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:20 pm

Kosta +2. Common sense!

pracines · Post by **pracines** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:20 pm

I disagree when you say "first" Kosta. The reason I disagree is because optimizing is going to happen whether its 32 bit or 64 bit, but a developer cannot/should not develop technologies in a program which cannot function in the first place because of the VAS limitations we all have known about for over a decade. The first thing that should have happened ( and now should happen ) is 64 bit, to even allow the possibility of full functionality of all features/technologies. Then "second" do the optimizing of the 64 bit platform.

Its time that the cop out of "turn the sliders down" advice come to an end. I expect a reduction of performance with all sliders up , but the OOM issue should not be allowed ( by LM or customers )to become the norm and yet P3D live on. I expected bumps with the DX11 and rendering technologies, but a looming and unpredictable possible OOM with a clean installation of a simulation on this level is absolutely unacceptable and must be dealt with quickly.

Don't wait until the add-ons start piling on and then change to 64 bit, change to 64 bit now before PMDG and other developers waste their time.

Paul

sanh1977 · Post by **sanh1977** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:35 pm

I don't think 64 bit is needed right now. Optimise memory usage is a better option right now to prevent oom. Don't want to throw away my add-ons or delay upcoming p3d features

pracines · Post by **pracines** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:09 pm

sanh,

64 Bit is needed right now, however if not now, then when? 5 years, 5 months, 15 years? No matter how long it is, its going to be painful. Do you think you will suddenly hate all your add-ons sometime in the future? The upcoming features of and products for P3D will only serve to require more VAS. Frustration is going to be the result if we remain on this path.

Memory usage being optimized does not increase available VAS, it is a Band-Aid for a deep wound. I have 32 GB of memory and I could have 100 trillion terabytes of memory and that would not stop the out of memory issues we are all faced with.

I have great concern that this plain and simple truth will not be understood until its too late and the P3D project gets canceled.

Just remember that all of your add-ons are nothing without a solid platform to run them. If you want to "reduce the sliders" (lower the bar/standard of quality or expectation) that's your choice. Then when P3D 64 bit comes out (at a seemingly more convenient time) that will be another simulator to "buy" and by then we could have 128 bit OS which may not even run 64 bit programs.

Flight simulation is too far behind the power curve and it has stalled to a fatal crash with many companies so far; LM is not immune to stalls.

Paul

ncp10 · Post by **ncp10** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:09 pm

Quote:
Quote from Avidean on February 17, 2014, 19:13

Quote:
Quote from Dean_B on February 17, 2014, 15:07

Quote:
Quote from Avidean on February 17, 2014, 14:55

I did a clean 2.1 install and tested with nothing but the now supported Saitek controllers (and TrackIR) and I got blurred textures and stutters on an absolutely vanilla install on an i7 4770k and GTX 780 system. I am in the process of giving it one more try from scratch and I am watching every detail.

But did you delete all the previous P3D folders as stipulated by LM before the clean install? It makes a huge difference as I found out.

-Dean

Yes I did!

Boy that sounds like the wrong Affinity Mask? Check that out first, then rebuild your p3d.cfg file one more time, and add the Affinity Mask if you do that.

Kosta · Post by **Kosta** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:43 am

Quote:
Quote from pracines on February 18, 2014, 17:20

I disagree when you say "first" Kosta. The reason I disagree is because optimizing is going to happen whether its 32 bit or 64 bit, but a developer cannot/should not develop technologies in a program which cannot function in the first place because of the VAS limitations we all have known about for over a decade. The first thing that should have happened ( and now should happen ) is 64 bit, to even allow the possibility of full functionality of all features/technologies. Then "second" do the optimizing of the 64 bit platform.

Okay, makes sense, I just wanted to point out the 64bit alone is not a solution. Turning it around is of course meaningful, however both steps should be done in one patch or upgrade. But if not 64bit yet (as they said they are pretty far from making that), I would take optimized 32bit any day over what we have now.