UK Airspace Scenery Project

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nigelallenby
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Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:43 am

Postby nigelallenby » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:43 am

Hi K

I've modified Brawdy Tower to 122.400, how that got deleted from the comms list is probably a senior moment again! I'll send you the updated file with a few more. Thanks a lot, appreciate what you're doing.

Nigel
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kevinfirth
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Location: Kidderminster, UK
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Postby kevinfirth » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:53 am

Please see new updated files available - dropbox download link available at....
http://flightsimscenery.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/uk-airspace-update-230715.html

Changes included in this update:

AERODROME TRAFFIC ZONES (ATZ)
Effective: 25/06/2015
Details:AERODROME TRAFFIC ZONES (ATZ)
Coningsby - delete 120.800, insert 124.675

SYERSTON
Effective: 30/04/2015
Details:SYERSTON
Change frequency for glider site at 530124N 0005442W from 125.425 MHz to 128.525 MHz

AERODROME TRAFFIC ZONES (ATZ)
Effective: 25/06/2015
Details:AERODROME TRAFFIC ZONES (ATZ)
Remove Wyton ATZ.

SHOBDON (EGBS)
Effective: 23/07/2015
Details:SHOBDON (EGBS)
A/G service to be removed. Amend entry in ATZ list in Legend to read "SHOBDON (EGBS)..... AFIS 123.500".

WITTERING (EGXT)
Effective: 23/07/2015
Details:WITTERING (EGXT)
Change frequency for military aerodrome at 523645N 0002836W from 125.525 to 119.675.

ATS ROUTE N42
Effective: 25/06/2015
Details:ATS ROUTE N42
Lower limit of airway raised to FL145 along whole length.

ATS ROUTE L175
Effective: 28/05/2015
Details:ATS ROUTE L175
L175 is to be redesignated as P2.

IRELAND
Effective: 28/05/2015
Details:IRELAND
ATS ROUTE L175
Lower ATS route L175 will be renamed P2.


Thanks K

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kevinfirth
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Postby kevinfirth » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:57 pm

After immersing myself in this for a little while I've become increasingly annoyed by the fact that my default navdata is plain wrong and doesn't match up in any appreciable way to real life now. PlanG is brilliant, but only displays what is in the stock BGL's :(

So, I've been turning an idea over in my head about whether it would be possible to update this stuff to make it a little more real worldy...

After reading lots and lots, the general prevailing opinion of the great and the good is that it's not worth doing because it can break a lot of things like AI. The problem lies in the way [navaids] and [airways] are defined. An [airway] is comprised of ISEC [waypoints], each of which have any number of [routes] attached to them. Commonly the end of an [airway] is attached to a [waypoint] linked to a [navaid]. Cumulatively, all this data allows you to create flightplans with the internal planner, and provides seamless routes for AI aircraft.

If you break an [airway] by amending/deleteing a [navaid], [waypoint] or [route] referenced within another [waypoint] then you introduce an error, which causes things like a CTD or AI to simply disappear.

This complexity is compounded by MS's original choice of database in which to store all this stuff. All the waypoint and route information for the UK appears to be held within the [u]SIMULATOR[/u]/SCENERY/0501 and 0502 folders in files ATX05010.bgl and ATX05020.bgl. The problem is the sheer amount of data in each...

I decompiled one of them and managed to use Notepad and Word to reformat the decompiled xml so that each Waypoint and Route was together in one line rather than indented and spread over multiple lines (I find it much easier to read xml this way). Then I simply copied the text into excel - each reformatted line now occupies one cell. All I need to do is filter the excel sheet looking for any cell containing the text of either an [airway], [navaid], [waypoint] or [route] and I get a nicely presented short list of each reference to that element.

 photo L10 airway data_zpsorvkn3ua.jpg

That _should_ make it possible to change some of the information without missing any associated changes that need to be made to not break anything.. :D After that it should be a simple matter of copying the amended data back to the xml file and recompiling to arrive at some useable and more up to date navdata.

Theory over, I need to now find some time to take an out of date ISEC waypoint and remove/update it as a test....

Does this seem workable to anyone in the know here please or am I missing something?
Thanks K

Christopher Low
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Postby Christopher Low » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:08 am

Kevin,

I made a short flight from EGNT Newcastle to EGPD Aberdeen yesterday (direct flight @ 353 degrees), and I noted that I was never handed over from Newcastle Approach (124.375) to any other frequency. I contacted Aberdeen Approach (120.400) when I arrived in the relevant airspace, but shouldn't I have been handed over to Scottish Centre (119.875) when I left Newcastle airspace? I was only cruising (very slowly) at 3000 feet for the entire trip, but I would have thought that shouldn't make a difference. I haven't done this exact flight before, so I can't be sure what is normal here...

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kevinfirth
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Postby kevinfirth » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:44 am

Hi Chris,
Was this with default ATC? I dont use the default ATC because I find it frightfully unrealistic when set against how ATC works here in the UK! I can recommend VoxATC, which isnt cheap and has a few flaws still, but the UK version uses the correct phraseology according to CAP413 and incorporates real elements such as MATZ penetrations..

Back to your situation, I suspect (without refererring to charts) at such a low altitude, you will mostly be in uncontrolled airspace. Therefore I wouldnt expect to be handed off to anyone and your next radio comms would ve when you come back into range of your destination APP freq. I will check the charts, but play with it some more and we can discuss in detail at Cosford in a few weeks?

Cheers K

balu0
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:20 pm

Re: UK Airspace Scenery Project

Postby balu0 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:52 pm

Hello Kevin!

I would like to update the airspaces in my country (Hungary).
Much simpler then UK :D we have only 1 proper TMA at Budapest :D

I have the AIP or even simpler airspace data in OpenAir format to go as a source. (maybe i can write a converter ?!)

Is your excel file public? Can I use it?
If not , could you give me some pointers where to start ?

Thx

PS.: just reading up your previous post about not up to date waypoints, (maybe I misunderstand the problem) there is a NAVAIDS update for current 2015 AIRAC for free here: http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids3.html, From its readme: "In Europe region, all data (VORs, NDBs, ILSs, runway identifiers, approach lighting systems, PAPIs and optionally intersections) are corrected.
"

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kevinfirth
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Re: UK Airspace Scenery Project

Postby kevinfirth » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:23 pm

@balu0 Ive seen that but when I installed it it didnt seem to even update my ISEC waypoints. Even if it is supposed to, it does not alter the routes etc, so it will break the continuity of routes where a waypoint is amended or deleted. That said, have a look in the developer showcase forum as someone there has an imminent product that apparently updates all aspects based on navigraph data, which is appears to be basically an automated implementation of what I outlined above in a previous post :) Cheers K

balu0
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:20 pm

Re: UK Airspace Scenery Project

Postby balu0 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:25 pm

Ye I figured it would be too simple, as I read more of the documentation it dose mention it will break the AI.


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