Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Any issues, problems or troubleshooting topics related to computer hardware and the Prepar3D client application
Manny
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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby Manny » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:48 pm

OMG I had this issue.. I thought IT was my OC..so I kept reducing my OC Ha HA!

Finally I threw my Saitak wheel out..Or rather I un plugged it

Manny

remcosol
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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby remcosol » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:21 pm

Same here , the only way I can get it to work is to make sure it is disconnected when w10 starts up . When it's up and running then I connect the wheel and it works fine.

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aeronauta
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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby aeronauta » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:51 am

If you have the Saitek Yoke , plug it in its hub...

Jorge
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Clifton Crane
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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby Clifton Crane » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:22 pm

Hello,

I have been able to reproduce this issue consistently following a system restart. When the trim wheel is moved for the first time after starting Windows, I do witness the joystick disconnect. This disconnect can be witnessed when selecting the device in the Game Controllers dialog in Windows and clicking Properties. When the disconnect happens, the Saitek Trim Wheel Properties dialog will close. This disconnect only seems to happen the first time the device is used after a system restart.

If this disconnect happens while the device is registered by Prepar3D, or the device is unplugged before the above disconnect happens, I will see the mouse beeping and system instability. Moving the trim wheel after starting Windows and manually causing the disconnect before starting Prepar3D may prevent the issue from happening. I will investigate what Jorge has said about plugging the device into the yoke's hub.

We believe this issue is with the device drivers and not on the Prepar3D end. We have contacted Saitek about the issue to determine if they have any information on the issue. I will post any additional information here as it is received and any more feedback is welcome.
Clifton Crane
Prepar3D® Software Engineer Sr.

Gent
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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby Gent » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:31 pm

Hello Clifton

Good luck with getting any information from saitek on this. They have had tickets and phone calls on this for at least a year. I had this problem on my previous computer with win 7 64. The lockup problem is within the saitek drives and the have to wake up once per reboot I believe is in the device itself. As I recall one of the problems was I couldn't find a way to get rid of the saitek driver once installed. I built a new computer and did not let any saitek software product install. Since then with no driver the wheel still requires "activation" with every reboot but does not cause a lockup if the "activation" is done with P3D v3 running. You might get an exciting ride if you do it in the air as it may come online badly out of trim. I try to just give a spin after a reboot until I here the usb connect sound.

Thanks
Terry

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Rob Ainscough
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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby Rob Ainscough » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:44 pm

Hi Clifton,

Thanks for looking at this, what you describe under the OS is exactly what happens with my Saitek Trim Wheel also. I DO plug the Trim Wheel into the Yoke hub but that doesn't seem to make any difference.

Like others, I have contacted Saitek with this problem (many months ago or year ago) and received no response. If you can use LM leverage to get a response that's great news ... if not, I'll probably just dump the Saitek Trim Wheel and go with GoFlight GF-LGT-II control module.

Cheers, Rob.
Rob Ainscough

dmzagar
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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby dmzagar » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:21 am

Interesting Rob,
Back in the v2.0 days, when I was considering a Saitek upgrade, it became clear to me after trying to communicate with them (MadCats?) that the only real help I was going to get was through the Prepar3D forum. From the forum the consensus seemed to be DON'T install Saitek drivers but use FSUIPC instead. Following that advice I've been successfully using their Yoke, Rudder pedals, a TPM unit, two Throttle Quadrants, and a Trim Wheel all through FSUIPC, with the controls changing to match aircraft type. I am still using V2.5 but plan to move to V3.x in the future. Have I just been lucky or is the issue unique to V3?
Dave

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Rob Ainscough
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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby Rob Ainscough » Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:21 pm

HI Dave,

My Saitek Trim Wheel has issues with v2.5 also, however they weren't as serious of an issue as they are with v3.0. In v2.5 I would have to unplug and plug my Saitek wheel in ... IF I didn't move the wheel back and forth within about 30 seconds of loading v2.5. In V3.0 however, I must do a hard reset of the PC when I have this problem.

My hunch at what the problem is ... the OS does NOT see the trim wheel until it's physically moved back and forth. This indicates a problem with the OS driver (Win7 64bit) or a design issue with the Saitek trim wheel.

Personally, I believe its a hardware problem with the device and/or the Yoke PS2/USB input ports (IC controlling those input ports) ... it's not registering it's "active" position ALL the time, ONLY after it's been initially moved does it register data. This may have a lot do with how the trim wheel works ... as you know it can spin infinitely in both directions, there is no physical limit in one direction or the the other. So how could a driver know what the "relative position" is until some data is received from the wheel? Movement of the wheel should NOT be needed to trigger data, there should ALWAYS be some Max, Min, and center and "current" position.

I've tried using FSUIPC also ... FSUIPC just will not see the wheel at all, unless (like Clifton suggests) I've triggered the wheel to be "active" by moving it back and forth or unplug and plug BEFORE I start P3D V3. In those situations FSUPIC and P3D will see the wheel ... as a work around I could make sure I do a trim wheel calibration every time I start the OS and before I start P3D. But to be honest, that's just not something I want to deal with as a work around.

I have a slew of other Saitek components also and GoFlight components, only the Saitek Trim Wheel has this issue.

Cheers, Rob.
Rob Ainscough

dmzagar
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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby dmzagar » Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:57 pm

Rob,
Let me mention that:

1) All my USB connections are thru a 2.0 hub.
2) There are NO connections to the Yoke, both Throttle Quadrants are USB.
3) The first time I touch the Trim is during preflight.
4) If I load a flight and set the trim, the trim remains set upon reload.

I can imagine 1&2 making a difference in behavior, but I don’t understand how.

Dave
I7-4770, W7/64, GPU-770

Hippo
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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby Hippo » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:16 pm

I am also seeing the problem with the trim wheel causing the mouse problems / beeping. For me, it only happens quite rarely, and usually the trim wheel is ok. I am using FSUIPC for all my controllers.

I recently went to from WIn7 to Win10 as well as going from P3Dv2 to v3, and I've been having issues with controller hardware ever since. I suspect it's moving to W10 that is the cause, as everything worked perfectly previously.

You may want to investigate the following, as I think it could be a part of the problem:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2 ... stcount=58

I have a number of USB controllers that are affected by this issue, and turning off (setting to zero) the EnhancedPowerManagementEnabled registry setting for them has helped considerably.

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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby Adam_NZ » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:38 am

I have my sleep state set correctly and still find P3Dv3 unusable if I ever activate the trim wheel.

My trim wheel works perfectly in my co-installed FSX, P3Dv2.5 and DCS World - so it must be some incompatibility between P3Dv3 and Saitek ... who knows!

Adam.
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Rob Ainscough
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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby Rob Ainscough » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:10 pm

I've moved on to using GoFlight's trim wheel and not having any issues in V3 ... so seems to be something about the Saitek Trim Wheel and V3 on my system.

LM were able to replicate the issue with Saitek Trim Wheel, so hopefully (fingers crossed) LM can address it or if the fix needs to come from Saitek, then have Saitek address issue.

Cheers, Rob.
Rob Ainscough

simpeter
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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby simpeter » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:58 am

I also had the Saitek trim wheel lock ups - with the only solution a hard reset - very annoying

This evening I installed the upgrade to Windows 10 (Version 1511) - it was done via windows 10 update

Tried plugging in the Saitek trim wheel and tested it in control panel devices > game controller > settings -

it did the usual and closed the window when I tried spinning the wheel for the first time - but, as per usual, re-opening the window and re-doing the test saw it working normally - so far it has been working continuously with no problems in V3

It seems to have picked up the Saitek driver 19/4/2011 - 7.0.9.15 I may have left it in my system from a previous install

unplugging it within windows 10 did not cause the mouse/OS lockups - plugging it back in also did not cause any lockups

Result - I can now use it again -

Pete

Jassist
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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby Jassist » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:24 pm

Sorry, but it means that you have to disconnect trim wheel every time you turn off the computer and conecct it again after a restart and before run P3d V3?

Thanks!

Hippo
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Re: Saitek Trim Wheel causing need for Hard PC reset

Postby Hippo » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:13 am

Hippo wrote:I am also seeing the problem with the trim wheel causing the mouse problems / beeping. For me, it only happens quite rarely, and usually the trim wheel is ok. I am using FSUIPC for all my controllers.

I recently went to from WIn7 to Win10 as well as going from P3Dv2 to v3, and I've been having issues with controller hardware ever since. I suspect it's moving to W10 that is the cause, as everything worked perfectly previously.


I recently made some changes to my system (removed some USB controllers, plugged in existing controllers into different ports), and this issue has become almost constant. I can start up the PC, go into USB controllers, go into trim wheel properties, move the trim wheel - the red bar display then doesn't move, the USB controllers propeties windows close down, the mouse slows down and beeps when I click the mouse button(s) and the system becomes unusable until I power down. I don't have to use P3D at all to see this issue.

However, as suggested by others (thank you, thank you) in this thread, uninstalling the Saitek driver seems to resolve this issue for me.

So (for me at least) this issue appears to have nothing to do with P3D. I´m tempted to blame it on Windows 10: I had a system that had been running reliably without any issues under W7 for years. Since the upgrade:

The PC will often not shut down correctly.
I get regular BSOD referencing USB devices.
I had a lot of trouble getting my TM Cougar to work with its Foxy software. If I move the Cougar onto another USB port, Foxy stops working.
My TM MFDs would blink and stop working (dealt with by registry change I mentioned above).
My Saitek TQMs would stop working (dealt with by registry change I mentioned above).
A USB hard drive is often disabled by the OS because a problem is detected.
The Saitek trim wheel nonsense mentioned above.

I am seriously considering going back to W7. I think I'm getting a taste of the crap (some) W8 users have been putting up with over the past few years.
Last edited by Hippo on Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.


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