ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

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jsmcwilliam
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:45 pm

ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby jsmcwilliam » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:06 pm

I have a Windows 10 setup with P3Dv4 and Active Sky on a remote pc. I have been struggling with planning of a departure from my FlyTampa Copenhagen airport. I get my weather from active sky indicating a wind of 070/12. This is mirrored in the addon info in the sim. It is also repeated in the ATIS broadcast, however, the runway in use is given as 22R. I plan my flights in EFB and if I try to start from 22R it tells me that the runway is not available due to the wind conditions. Active sky do not think this conflict is due to them - do you have any suggestions. Could it be the scenery?

Martyson
Posts: 6100
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby Martyson » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:01 pm

I have a Windows 10 setup with P3Dv4 and Active Sky on a remote pc. I have been struggling with planning of a departure from my FlyTampa Copenhagen airport. I get my weather from active sky indicating a wind of 070/12. This is mirrored in the addon info in the sim. It is also repeated in the ATIS broadcast, however, the runway in use is given as 22R. I plan my flights in EFB and if I try to start from 22R it tells me that the runway is not available due to the wind conditions. Active sky do not think this conflict is due to them - do you have any suggestions. Could it be the scenery?
Have you tested default airports?

Have you asked Fly Tamps (forum) about departure runways (and possibly with AI in use) at EKCH?
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

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downscc
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:46 pm
Location: KCRP

Re: ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby downscc » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:07 pm

Large airports will often run traffic in a direction opposite to the wind up to a limit such as 5 kt max tailwind component due to preferred direction of flow and the large disruption to flow that is caused by reversing flow direction.
Dan Downs
KCRP

jsmcwilliam
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:45 pm

Re: ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby jsmcwilliam » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:32 pm

I have posted my problem with FlyTampa, Hifi and UT Live but not heard anything yet. I’m curious to know how Atis can give the correct wind and then a conflicting departure runway. Something is overriding the wind conditions and I suspect UT or FlyTampa scenery but how can this be corrected. When I fly from my Orbx Arlanda (Essa) or default Malmo (Esms) I have not experienced this problem as yet.

KampfHase
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:30 am

Re: ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby KampfHase » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:29 pm

Hey guys,

I am also having big trouble with wind direction and active runways.

I am in the progress of editing the AFCAD for KDEN by Flightbeam. I noticed something very strange with the runway usage.

Whatever wind I set, the active runway always stays the same.

Even if I open all runways at this airport for both takeoff and landing, it's the same. Crosswind runways are all set up correct, traffic uses both the 25 and 34s for takeoff. But even if I set the wind at full thrust from south, the active runways still is 34L and traffic uses this as well.

What am I missing here? Maybe its just a small thing I am to blind to see.

I can already see it in the sim opening screen. I select KDEN as airport, active runway, it shows 34L as active. Whatever wind I set in the menu, even before starting the flight, the active runway stays.

I will attach you a map of how I set up the runways (hopefully like in real life). I would like to attach my AFCAD file, but it seems to be disabled in the forum.

This may be a general P3D thing, but also something with my file. I am stuck.

Thank you

Image

KampfHase
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:30 am

Re: ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby KampfHase » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:28 am

Alright, so I did a little bit of further testing.

I set the wind to a higher level, because KDEN is located pretty high, and finally a little change. I set it from south-eastern direction, and finally the AI aircraft were landing from the north. So far so good.

BUT: departing traffic still used 25, altough when wind comes from the southeast, its not good. Very very few aircraft in the far eastern gates taxied to 17L now. But only those, who were parked closer to 17L than 25.

That means: departing aircraft sill use the closest runway to their gate, no matter how the wind is set.

ErikBrouwer
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:08 pm

Re: ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby ErikBrouwer » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:13 am

Hi,

I think your AFCAD is wrong.
At EHAM, my traffic uses 36L for departure with northerly winds, and 18L (much closer) only with southerly winds.
So the system seems to work.
I suspect the crosswind runway setup in your AFCAD is designed in such a way that a tailwind runway is linked to a headwind runway.
IE at EHAM, with winds from the south east, RWY 27 is used for landings and 24 for departures because it is linked with crosswind technique to the 18-runways.

Which, coincidentally is perfectly realistic. Slight tailwind arrivals and departures are not uncommon at larger airports.

Erik

KampfHase
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:30 am

Re: ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby KampfHase » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:58 am

Hi,

I think your AFCAD is wrong.
At EHAM, my traffic uses 36L for departure with northerly winds, and 18L (much closer) only with southerly winds.
So the system seems to work.
I suspect the crosswind runway setup in your AFCAD is designed in such a way that a tailwind runway is linked to a headwind runway.
IE at EHAM, with winds from the south east, RWY 27 is used for landings and 24 for departures because it is linked with crosswind technique to the 18-runways.

Which, coincidentally is perfectly realistic. Slight tailwind arrivals and departures are not uncommon at larger airports.

Erik
Image

This is how my runways are set up. To get the crosswind runways working I needed to add those fake runways, this technique worked for years. It is also successful, the sim now operates all runways simultanously.

But just because there now are some runways between the real ones, does not mean the 90 degree ones at the bottom shall mimic the heading of the ones on the top.

ErikBrouwer
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:08 pm

Re: ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby ErikBrouwer » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:38 pm

But just because there now are some runways between the real ones, does not mean the 90 degree ones at the bottom shall mimic the heading of the ones on the top.
Uhm.. yes. That is exactly the point of the fake runways in between: to make the sim believe that 17/35 is parallel to 07/25. And it acts accordingly.

Urmel81
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:27 pm

Re: ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby Urmel81 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:54 pm

Any info from LM? Some airport's have problems now. The Runway usage is exactly the opposite as it should be.
Today Stockholm ESSA (ORBX) 30.10.2019 11:30 AM
Wind: 230/10

Runways in use: 01 L + 01 R + 08

should be: 19L + 19R + 26

Any idea? Any Info from LM

Thanks Urmel

Clifton Crane
Lockheed Martin
Posts: 999
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Re: ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby Clifton Crane » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:50 pm

Hi KampfHase,

What settings are you using for secondaryLanding on your runways?

Previous to HF2 this setting was ignored. Instead, it was incorrectly being replaced by the primaryLanding value.

Does setting secondaryLanding to match primaryLanding have any effect? This would recreate the behavior seen prior to HF2.

Thanks.
Clifton Crane
Prepar3D® Software Engineer Sr.

Urmel81
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:27 pm

Re: ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby Urmel81 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:19 pm

Hi KampfHase,

What settings are you using for secondaryLanding on your runways?

Previous to HF2 this setting was ignored. Instead, it was incorrectly being replaced by the primaryLanding value.

Does setting secondaryLanding to match primaryLanding have any effect? This would recreate the behavior seen prior to HF2.

Thanks.
HI Clifton,
thanks for your answer. Ok, I'm not KampfHase, but I think I have the same problem. I was testing in Stockholm and Brussel.
The runway usage won't change when I have different wind conditions.

EBBR:
always Takeoff Runway 07L and 07R, Landing always 01 and 07L
The sim doesn't care about other winds (eg 250/8kt): still the same runways.
The same Problem with ORBX Stockholm-Arlanda (and maybe more airports with crosswind runways)

When I change back to HF 1 everything is working like expected.

Pictures:

Image

Image

Image

Image


I hope KampfHase has more Examples.

Regards Urmel

Clifton Crane
Lockheed Martin
Posts: 999
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:34 pm

Re: ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby Clifton Crane » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:34 pm

Hi Urmel,

Does setting "Secondary Landing" to YES for runway 07L/25R have any effect?

You can try to do the same for the fake runways. For each runway, set "Secondary Landing" so that it matches the "Primary Landing" value.

These changes should mimic the HF1 behavior.

Thanks.
Clifton Crane
Prepar3D® Software Engineer Sr.

Urmel81
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:27 pm

Re: ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby Urmel81 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:18 am

Hi Urmel,

Does setting "Secondary Landing" to YES for runway 07L/25R have any effect?

You can try to do the same for the fake runways. For each runway, set "Secondary Landing" so that it matches the "Primary Landing" value.

These changes should mimic the HF1 behavior.

Thanks.
I opened 25 R for Landing and it worked. I closed it again, an then only 07L, 07R and 01 are working on the same conditions like before.

The fake runways are all closed for Landing and Takeoff.


Regards Urmel

Urmel81
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:27 pm

Re: ATIS conflict between wind direction and assigned runway

Postby Urmel81 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:31 pm

Hi Urmel,

Does setting "Secondary Landing" to YES for runway 07L/25R have any effect?

You can try to do the same for the fake runways. For each runway, set "Secondary Landing" so that it matches the "Primary Landing" value.

These changes should mimic the HF1 behavior.

Thanks.
Is LM working on an update for this problem? Some Runways need to be closed, like in real life.

Thanks Urmel


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