FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Any issues, problems or troubleshooting topics related to the Prepar3D client application.
PilotRaider14
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:15 am

FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by PilotRaider14 »

Hello P3D Forum,

(This was posted to Geforce Forums as well, and edited here to suit this platform).

I've decided to take some time to showcase the issue that is plaguing every single game in existence right now and for us our flight simulators. The reason is because some games run on full screen windowed mode. Something is broken that isn't allowing the Antialiasing to be implemented on this mode. Full screen windowed mode works differently than exclusive mode. I know that Prepar3D runs on FullScreen Windowed Mode and not Exclusive Mode.

In the shots I used an older title, Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004: A Century of Flight, that I knew used to work properly with Antialiasing on Windows 10, but is no longer working correctly. I'm a flight simmer mainly, so the anti-aliasing is of utmost importance especially for distance viewing. Without it, it takes away from the immersion.

Exclusive FullScreen mode applies the Antialiasing, but it isn't as strong as it should be, it still has issues with the latest drivers and it comes with shimmering in the distance as other people have noted. FS2004 does not use the fake windowed full screen mode, but rather EXCLUSIVE full screen mode, so it helped to find the problem.

Notice that I've checked the box for Anti-Aliasing in-sim which on this title at its prime time caused the game to look incredible, and many users cautioned against using that option as it was taxxiing on the system resources, but now even that check-box option looks terrible. The AA implementation that is used for this sim is MSAA and I believe it's supposed to be x8 when selecting the box.

This isn't on my main desktop but rather on my Area 51m Laptop. 9700K/RTX2070 using the latest windows build 20H2 and latest NVIDIA Driver.

Please observe the images, I've even highlighted the differences. I took the time to do this so that someone either over at Microsoft or NVIDIA can fix it because this is happening on ALL games/titles.

I've read on some forums that they couldn't find the solution and have been living with this issue for a while now and that's because their games run in windowed mode, I'm helping to narrow the issue down.

On another forum someone stated the issue could be "dirty" electricity, but that's nonsense because I took my gaming laptop to my parents house to do this where things used to work, so therefore it has nothing to do with electricity. It's something within the OS or NVIDIA driver that's not allowing this to work properly.

I hope that this is helpful to narrow down the issue, engineers can now work on fixing windowed mode anti-aliasing, although the AA looks a little better on fullscreen, it isn't up to par with how it used to be before all this madness occured, which causes shimmering textures or flickering.

Images:

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Let me know what you guys thing. Thanks for taking the time to read my post.
Intel i9 10900K|Corsair 32GB DDR4 3200MHz|2TB NVME 970 EVO Plus|EVGA FTW3 GTX 1080Ti | EVGA 850W G3 PSU
Dual Booting Windows 10 21H2/Windows 11 Dev. | P3D, XP11, DCS World, MSFS.
Aviator1979
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:05 pm

Re: FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by Aviator1979 »

Did u try this?
https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/5333 ... ode-fixed/

setting to diablo in nv inspector?
PilotRaider14
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:15 am

Re: FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by PilotRaider14 »

Aviator1979 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:47 pm Did u try this?
https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/5333 ... ode-fixed/

setting to diablo in nv inspector?
So I did download NV Inspector and set that option in both the Global and application profiles.
When I went to run the sim it did not work unfortunately. :(

What I did notice though is that for FS9 if I enable "Override Any Application Setting" for AA, it works with windowed mode at 8x.
However, this doesn't mean there isn't an issue because by default on the setting of "Application Controlled" it should respond to the simulators in-game AA setting check-box option regardless of window size being windowed or exclusive full-screen and it doesn't.

I tried other titles such as X-Plane 11 and the same issue is present. No response to the AA Compatibility change and even if I set it to override of enhance in NV Control Panel, nothing happens either. It still looks very aliased.

What I can discern from testing is that AntiAliasing CAN still work, so it's not like the computer can't use it at all. There's just some underlying issue that isn't allowing it to be used on all other titles/apps under application controlled. Keep in mind that I've reinstalled Windows 10 various times already and i've only gone ahead and installed the bare minimum to get the games up and running and it's still not working on three of my systems.

I've already tried using the "Enhance" and "Override" setting on P3D but it doesn't work either, there's a lot of aliasing on radio towers, runway edge markings, taxiway markings (they look like ants marching without the AA when panning camera), and at times the leading edges of aircraft. Not only that but without it, it causes the scenery in the distance to shimmer and appear like it's moving when banking the aircraft.

I don't know what else to try at this point. NVIDIA and Microsoft have been very slow to respond to this issue.

Thanks for that suggestion though, I was hoping it would work but something is still amiss.
Intel i9 10900K|Corsair 32GB DDR4 3200MHz|2TB NVME 970 EVO Plus|EVGA FTW3 GTX 1080Ti | EVGA 850W G3 PSU
Dual Booting Windows 10 21H2/Windows 11 Dev. | P3D, XP11, DCS World, MSFS.
Aviator1979
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:05 pm

Re: FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by Aviator1979 »

i hope we can solve it, same issues here, greets
PilotRaider14
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:15 am

Re: FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by PilotRaider14 »

I hope so, don't know how close the partnership between LM and NVIDIA or even Microsoft for that matter is. I hope the devs can communicate on this to fix it.
Intel i9 10900K|Corsair 32GB DDR4 3200MHz|2TB NVME 970 EVO Plus|EVGA FTW3 GTX 1080Ti | EVGA 850W G3 PSU
Dual Booting Windows 10 21H2/Windows 11 Dev. | P3D, XP11, DCS World, MSFS.
Trigen
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by Trigen »

Im quite sure this runs relatively deep

I wrote reply on your video on YT too

I have the same issue but it just came out of the blue really. My 1080TI was working fine and then suddenly the next day everything just looked awful! It really was like night and day.

I made a long troubleshoot post on the DCS forums but could never figure it out. Then i built a completely new system and everything was fine for 5 months before boom AA or whatever is causing this just stops working properly. It really feels like there is something more related to aliasing pre AA that is also broken cause things looks a lot worse than it did at 0x and i can mask it to some extent with AA but you need 8X to have it look like 0x used to and some things are close to unchanged. Sadly i dont have FS 2004 (broken CD) so i cant check it. It happens in all games and my VR apps etc

Here's a playlist of just how bad things look. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYIg ... sNuEBU-ynp

And my DCS world post

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/190757-10 ... nt-4682016
PilotRaider14
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:15 am

Re: FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by PilotRaider14 »

Trigen wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:51 pm Im quite sure this runs relatively deep

I wrote reply on your video on YT too

I have the same issue but it just came out of the blue really. My 1080TI was working fine and then suddenly the next day everything just looked awful! It really was like night and day.

I made a long troubleshoot post on the DCS forums but could never figure it out. Then i built a completely new system and everything was fine for 5 months before boom AA or whatever is causing this just stops working properly. It really feels like there is something more related to aliasing pre AA that is also broken cause things looks a lot worse than it did at 0x and i can mask it to some extent with AA but you need 8X to have it look like 0x used to and some things are close to unchanged. Sadly i dont have FS 2004 (broken CD) so i cant check it. It happens in all games and my VR apps etc

Here's a playlist of just how bad things look. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYIg ... sNuEBU-ynp

And my DCS world post

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/190757-10 ... nt-4682016
Hey man! Sorry I missed your post! Your videos hit the nail right on the head! It just looks awful!

I want to get to the bottom of this and see what's causing it already.

This one in particular caught my eye...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ1nhwQ ... np&index=8

It'd be great if devs can acknowledge that there is a widespread known bug or issue on this...
Intel i9 10900K|Corsair 32GB DDR4 3200MHz|2TB NVME 970 EVO Plus|EVGA FTW3 GTX 1080Ti | EVGA 850W G3 PSU
Dual Booting Windows 10 21H2/Windows 11 Dev. | P3D, XP11, DCS World, MSFS.
Trigen
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Re: FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by Trigen »

I surely hope so cause its extremely distracting
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Martyson
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Re: FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by Martyson »

P3D v5.2 full screen looks good to me with
WIN10 21H1 build 19043.1023 / Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.2020.0.

Image
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell PP-ASEL (KDTW)
brynmwr
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by brynmwr »

Martyson wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:11 pm P3D v5.2 full screen looks good to me with
Vaughan,

This single shot, angle and proximity is not a good way of seeing the problem. The DCS videos above demonstrate the problem because they are (a) in motion and (b) showing semi-transparent objects in the distance. This problem is very evident in P3D as well.
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Martyson
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Re: FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by Martyson »

brynmwr ,

No problems for me.
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell PP-ASEL (KDTW)
brynmwr
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by brynmwr »

Yes I understand. For many people, aliasing isn't off-putting, and they don't see what the hassle is. For others, aliasing ruins the immersion. I'm in the that second group.
Trigen
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Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by Trigen »

I dont have any more recent P3d than v3.4 or so but ill try and get that installed soon to compare things. For now its just a comparison of issues.

From DCS in VR where things are in constant motion its quite extreme. These videos and screenshot are taken with 4x aa at 3900 supersampling. with everything texture and shadow related + An filtering to 16x. Thats very high. I see these effects in other games too.

I dont know if this is purely a DCS issue but it reminds me very much of things rendering only very close before it becomes very low resolution resulting in horrible jaggies and the seeming lack of AA. But the thing is. If you look at the white tablet in the huey cockpit that is also extremely aliased even at these settings when rendered close. So if its a texture transition or rendering issue is hard to say. But im quite sure that i didnt have these massive flickering issues with things this close or text before.

Short.
https://youtu.be/yAtosGGsymQ

Long

https://youtu.be/8Z-Lk_trl8s

2d screenshot.

Image
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Trigen
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Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by Trigen »

I have the exact same shadow issue in X plane. Its a small radius that works before the shadows just break. Its about twice that of DCS but the same thing. After that it becomes a flickering mess. Im betting its the same in P3d. Something clearly isnt working right and it seems the shadows are a very good visible indicator.
PilotRaider14
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:15 am

Re: FullScreen Windowed Mode Anti-Aliasing Broken on Windows 10

Post by PilotRaider14 »

Yeah clearly there's some sort of LOD Level of Detail issue. At a certain distance the shadows will flicker and so will the rest of the scenery.
I'm hoping Windows 11 might help with it? Unless it's down to a per game situation at this point. For a while the flickering was terrible, then it smoothed out a little but it never got back to the way it's supposed to be unfortunately.
Intel i9 10900K|Corsair 32GB DDR4 3200MHz|2TB NVME 970 EVO Plus|EVGA FTW3 GTX 1080Ti | EVGA 850W G3 PSU
Dual Booting Windows 10 21H2/Windows 11 Dev. | P3D, XP11, DCS World, MSFS.
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