Future of P3D

[Tamba765]

Have any of you checked FSElite lately? There are almost no new products for P3D, and there have been hardly any for quite a while. I still have P3Dv4 and am not planning on upgrading to v5, or purchasing MSFS either. LM has been silent for way too long on any developments, and MSFS is full of bugs, which in all likelihood will not be fixed for quite some time, according to their latest roadmap. Additionally, the latest hardware is nearly impossible to find unless you want to pay a low life scalper a ridiculous price. These are challenging times for simmers who really want to see something new that works as advertised. This is just my opinion and many of you will surely disagree with it, but that's one of the things that make this hobby unique. Thanks.

Pete Locascio

[mcdonar]

Hi Pete,
I agree with you. I am more and more certain that the only way forward will be from P3D to MSFS, though the lag time seems to be long.

[JorgenSA]

There is plenty of new P3D stuff posted every day on AVSIM.

Jorgen

[Tamba765]

I'm not talking about the addons on AVSIM. That stuff is not of the same quality as Flight Beam, imaginesim, Fly Tampa, Orbx, or any of the other developers of highly detailed scenery. Just about everything those guys are now making is for MSFS. I haven't even seen an update for any of the products that I purchased from those developers several months. I'm not making this up. That's what's happening. Thanks.

[Martyson]

I'm not talking about the addons on AVSIM. That stuff is not of the same quality as Flight Beam, imaginesim, Fly Tampa, Orbx, or any of the other developers of highly detailed scenery. Just about everything those guys are now making is for MSFS. I haven't even seen an update for any of the products that I purchased from those developers several months. I'm not making this up. That's what's happening. Thanks.

@ Tamba765 ,

One example.

Of the Flightbeam developed airports for MSFS [2020]:
KIAD
KDEN

they are already available for P3D.

What's "new"?

[JorgenSA]

I'm not talking about the addons on AVSIM. That stuff is not of the same quality as Flight Beam, imaginesim, Fly Tampa, Orbx, or any of the other developers of highly detailed scenery. Just about everything those guys are now making is for MSFS. I haven't even seen an update for any of the products that I purchased from those developers several months. I'm not making this up. That's what's happening. Thanks.

You forgot to add to "That's what's happening" this: "on the payware side".

Quite clear, the payware developers go with where they think they can sell. Which is certainly not indicative of where the users are - for that look at the platforms the freeware is developed for. There is even still developments for FS9.

Jorgen

[CoastalDriver]

I am not really sure what people mean by the question - future of P3D. V5 is already cutting edge simulation with DX12, EA and True Sky, a simple but effective addon system and It does really get enhanced by a variety of addons in areas where it may seem less than satisfactory, Nav Mapping, Real Time weather.

Graphically it is as good as any PC graphics can be with the limitation that is relying on artificially created 3D modelling and texture creation to work. The sim engine is robust and proven and capable of full blown systems simulation for vehicles and scenario development.

It is not a game! MSFS is and will not progress to a quality flight simulation delivery because the core philosophical product development has been on looking good and not on the physics of flight! In that regard they are trying to reinvent the wheel. P3D has no need to simple!.

There is a lot of work that needs to be done to the internal logic and scripting, paticularly GUI for functions.

The future for further development is industry dependant and I am sure there is a lot of concern about the now disastrous effects of the pandemic on the aviaiton industry - it has blown most of the players out of the water and the need for employees (pilots and engineers both) is limp to non existant, new aircraft sales are at rock bottom and there is a lot of parked aeroplanes around the world- that means no new training needs and a huge over capacity problem.

LM just have to tidy up P3D and keep it fixed for the next 5 years thats all - MSFS will be gone the way of the MS Flight vanished! MSFS was a great entertainment concept but useless for flight simulation!

[mcdonar]

@CoastalDriver. So you believe that Microsoft is largely wasting its money on developing MSFS at all? And all of the 3rd party developers as well?

[CoastalDriver]

mcdonar - No MS are not wasting their money- not at all. It is just the not the product people think it is or will become. This is pretend simulation to be delivered online via X-Box or similar. You cannot use it for serious flight simulation - that is what P3D is for.

Here is a comparison - I have installed on P3D a high level twin airline level jet. It has full systems from top to bottom, integrated scenario development, emergency training capability, integrated systems information and data, produces load sheets and dispatch sheets and every instrument in the VC works!. I also have a basic piston from the WW2 era with similar capacity. Both fly by the numbers that is they reproduce on screen what would occur or what would happen for any flight regime you think in the sim. I can do full blown precision approaches or non precision approaches, comprehensive navaid to navaid flights across the world or I can just stooge around low level VFR. Now MSFS cannot do any of the preceding on any type. So if I want to improve my proficiency or explore aerodynamics or set up scenarios for a student to try and learn I can trust the data and the response. Simple choice really. I really do not care what MS does either no matter how pretty the graphics they are chasing a completely different demographic - and it is a game!

It is not for me to debate the worth of one versus the other but there is one thing for sure - P3D has been able to build on the collaborative efforts of thousands of aeronautical enthusiasts from the time of the first flight sim. The product is not marketed as a game and nor are designers or developers bound to contractual demands to basically hand over their intellectual property to MS and to only market via MS. It goes completely against the grain of good science or engineering!

[mcdonar]

I am still confused. Are you suggesting that, for example, PMDG are wasting their time and money on developing their products for MSFS - that is, trying to deliver realistic simulators. You appear to be saying that they are definitely chasing unachievable dreams for you.

[JOM4021]

PMDG is certainly not wasting their money, because whatever some may think, MSFS is the platform of the future.
Don’t forget that, for their product to be realistic, PMDG had to create their own flight dynamics which, even in P3D, have nothing to do anymore with the default one. Every serious simmer knows that, if you want it to be as real as it gets, you need serious add ons. The same is true for MSFS. If I continue to fly PMDG’s NGX in P3D5, I also fly JustFlight’s Arrow III in MSFS, and that is exactly the same: it is a world apart from the default aircraft, and is as real as it gets, especially with serious controllers (and I have 200 flight hours on Cherokees, including 50 on Arrows).
Sure, MSFS is still a product in development. But to pretend that it is only a game is wrong. I know already that, the day PMDG will release their 737 for MSFS, P3D will leave my hard disk. I have flown only P3D since V3, and was very happy with it, but I must look forward. And I believe LM knows as well that the writing is on the wall, so I would be very surprised to see any further development from them (though I would really like a fix of EA).

[Martyson]

PMDG is certainly not wasting their money, because whatever some may think, MSFS is the platform of the future.
Don’t forget that, for their product to be realistic, PMDG had to create their own flight dynamics which, even in P3D, have nothing to do anymore with the default one. Every serious simmer knows that, if you want it to be as real as it gets, you need serious add ons. The same is true for MSFS. If I continue to fly PMDG’s NGX in P3D5, I also fly JustFlight’s Arrow III in MSFS, and that is exactly the same: it is a world apart from the default aircraft, and is as real as it gets, especially with serious controllers (and I have 200 flight hours on Cherokees, including 50 on Arrows).
Sure, MSFS is still a product in development. But to pretend that it is only a game is wrong. I know already that, the day PMDG will release their 737 for MSFS, P3D will leave my hard disk. I have flown only P3D since V3, and was very happy with it, but I must look forward. And I believe LM knows as well that the writing is on the wall, so I would be very surprised to see any further development from them (though I would really like a fix of EA).

@ JOM4021 ,
I fly Xplane11, P3Dv4, P3Dv5, MSFS [2020] : default and payware aircraft for each Sim (including PMDG737-advanced payment / deposit for MSFS).
None of the Sim's are leaving my PC.

BTY, does MSFS have military jets with weapons , and an aircraft carrier for flight Ops?

[JOM4021]

Developers are taking care of military jets and aircraft carriers, but for the weapons it is not the philosophy behind the sim... DCS is there for those who want to shoot at other planes ! 😉
Personally, I want to concentrate as much as I can on flying with the time I can spare simulating, reason why I want to limit the number of platforms/add ons that I use.

[Martyson]

Developers are taking care of military jets and aircraft carriers, but for the weapons it is not the philosophy behind the sim... DCS is there for those who want to shoot at other planes ! 😉
Personally, I want to concentrate as much as I can on flying with the time I can spare simulating, reason why I want to limit the number of platforms/add ons that I use.

@ JOM4021 ,
Yes, I understand.

I fly military jets / weapons and aircraft carriers (developers products) in P3Dv4 and do not need DCS (have used it in the past for a short time).
I fly planes in XP11 that are not available in the other Sims.
I fly planes in MSFS 2020 that are not available in the other Sims.
I fly planes in P3D that are not available in the other Sims.

I am enjoying all the Sims when I have time to fly them.

Edit:
Are you flying aircraft in Xplane11, MSFS 2020 or DCS?

[JOM4021]

No. I used to fly exclusively P3D until MSFS, and fly only B737 and P28R. Waiting for a high level turboprop to come out.