P3D Instability

Other problems or issues not covered by other troubleshooting topics.
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:24 pm

P3D Instability

Postby kplummer » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:46 pm

Was not sure if this post goes here or under hardware, so I made two just in case
I have been working over the past month and a half on completing a new build and slowly installing support programs, software, and hardware. All software is the most current version. All drivers are also current except for NVIDIA as the current driver causes me to have display issues.

What I have noticed the most, is that when you start the sim say with the PMDG 737 at Flightbeam KIAD with moderate weather and settings, the sim will run rather smoothly with FPS in the mid 30's. However, when you actually get to cruise and descend and land, my FPS can drop to singles digits.

I have tried a variety of flights and a variety of add-ons ranging from minimal impact to everything I can throw at it. The system works fine on short-haul flights say under a couple of hours. On Long haul flights that changes and stutters can develop both visual and audio. The visual ones I think I have under control, while the audio ones have no effect on FPS and I continue to struggle with.

I have also been looking into support programs and how they affect the system. Such as Navigrpah Charts (which now has simlink) disabled (Bummer) and avilasoft-EFB. Both programs run under low priority and without updates from the sim, essentially utilizing only the chart information only. I am also looking into other support programs such as ASN, or PTA or PFE3 to name just a few. Computers to me are simple like binary code its either a 0 or a 1. Somewhere a problem or bug exist that I have not found yet. I was always able to have FS98,00,04,X P3D2 and P3D3 run just fine, except the OOMs. Now I have no OOMs and am having trouble to get the sim to run fine.

What steps have I taken to troubleshoot? I will name/list just a few. I have spent a lot of time and energy on forums reading, testing etc. I am very open to constructive feedback as I may have overlooked something or missed something.

I do have an OC system, however, I spend the better part of two weeks honing and adjusting to ensure stability. It currently has no issues with CTD's, OOM, or BSOD's. It runs P3D very smoothly generally at the beginning with no problems, but that changes as time goes on.

I have gone through the Bible, guides etc to have a stable OS, disable all nonessential services and prioritize application and CPU usage. P3D has its own dedicated drive, support programs have their own dedicated drives, the OS etc.

I created a new P3D.cfg file from scratch (shown below) and applied minimal tweaks per the LM advanced page on their forum. I am curious about the addon.cfg having too many entries???

I have tried AM and no AF no visible change with or without it, the same goes for with or without FXAA and V-Sync with Tripple Buffering.

I have also cleared the Shaders folder and tried with or without ASN in normal calm conditions.

I do have an ASUS PG27V 165Hz monitor, so I don't know if changing my Nvidia Control Panel settings to either 30 or 60hz will help.

Below I am pasting a wealth of information from System Specs, Settings, Software and applicable P3D Support Files. I hope this might help and allow an answer to be found.

· Specs:
o Case: EVGA DG-86 (Average Case Temp 28°C)
o Fans: 5xCorsair PML 140 Pro Led (3 Front Case and 2 Rear Case) and 3xCorsair PML 120 Pro Led (Primary Top Case) / EKWB-Furious Vader EVO 140x 3 and EKWB-Furious Vader EVO 120x 3 (As Back-up)
o CPU: Intel 8700k
o GPU: GB Aorus Xtreme Geforce GTX 1080ti Waterfroce WB
o MB: GB Z370 Aorus Gaming 7 (*Note* the top M.2 slot is not utilized, to avoid turning off the 0 SATA Port)
o RAM: G. SKILL TridentZ RGB 32GB SDRAM DD4 3200 CL14
o Audio Card: Creative SBX AE-5 7.1
o PSU: Thermaltake PS-TPG-1250DPCTUS-T G RGB 1250W
o Storage 1: Samsung 960 EVO M.2 500GB (OS) Windows Home 64bit
o Storage 2: Samsung 960 EVO M.2 500GB (P3D) Prepar3d Academic Vs. I am currently enrolled with Embry Riddle Aero
o Storage 3: WD Black 6TB Performance Desktop HDD (Photo Scenery)
o Storage 4: Samsung 860 Pro 500GB (Other Gaming Drive)
o Storage 5: Samsung 860 Pro 500GB (P3D File and Gaming File Storage)
o Storage 6: Samsung 860 EVO 1TB (Music and Document File Storage)
o Storage 7: WD Black 1TB HDD (Movie File Storage)
o Storage 8: WD Black 1TB HDD (TV Series File Storage)
o Lighting Rod: LOGISYS UV Deluxe Sound Activated Cold Cathode
o Lighting Strips: CableMod WideBeam Hybrid LED 60CM RGB (UV with an additional 60CM Extension)
o Cables: CableMod Modmesh Nylon Blue
o Monitor: ASUS ROG Swift PG27VQ OC 165GHz
o Speaker: Creative Katana Sound Bar / Logitech G933 Headset for P3DV4

· Cooling:
o CPU/MB: EKWB FB GA Z370 Gaming RGB Monoblock for both the CPU and MB
o GPU: Pre-Installed WB
o M.2 SSD: EKWB NVMe Blue Heatsink x2
o Coolant: EKWB CryoFuel Blue Premix UV Reactive
o Pump: EKWB-XTOP DDC 3.2 PWM Elite
o Reservoir: EKWB RES X3 250 RGB
o Radiator: EKWB Coolstream XE 360 and EKWB Coolstream CE 420 (For Top and Front Positions)
o Cable: EKWB DuarClear UV with PrimoChill Anti-Kink Coil UV Reactive
o Temp Sensor: Thermaltake Pacific Temp Sensor

· Settings:
o OC Settings:
§ CPU: I7-8700K; (OC to 5.0GHz @ 1.435V, Temp: 40-60C°) Verified Stability
· Core 0-5 set to 50x
· Core Voltage: 1.435V / VCore LLC: Extreme / Core Voltage Mode Adaptive
· AVX Ratio: N/R

§ GPU: Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme Geforce GTX 1080ti WF WB; (OC to 1746GHz, Temp: 30-50C°) Verified Stability
· Aorus Graphic Engine: Set to OC Mode
· GPU Boost Clock 1746MHz
· Memory Clock 11448MHz

§ Memory: G. SKILL TridentZ RGB 32GB SDRAM DD4 3200 CL14;
· OC using XMP Profile 1

o Nvidia Control Panel:
§ All Default, except;
· Prefer Maximum Performance
· Shader Cache Off

o Nvidia Inspector: PREPAR3D.exe
§ All Default, except;
· Single Display Performance Mode
· Prefer Maximum Performance
· Shader Cache Off

o System Sound Settings:
§ Speakers Properties;
· 16-bit, 44100 Hz CD Quality
· Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device: Not Selected
· Communications: Do Nothing Selected

o Logitech G933 Headset:
· Surround Settings Not Utilized Only Stereo Option is Selected

o P3D V4.2
§ Traffic:
· Aviation Traffic: None Selected
· Land and Sea Traffic: Road Vehicles 0%, Ships and Ferries 20% and Leisure Boats 0%
§ Display:
· FXAA: Off
· AA: (Day) 2-8xSSAA or (Night) 8xMSAA All depending on location and conditions
· Texture Filtering: Anisotropic 8X
· Texture Resolution: High 2048x2048
· Autofill Main View: Selected
· Black Out Desktop: Not Selected
· VSync: On
· Trippel Buffering: Selected
· Target Frame Rate: Unlimited
· Wide-view Aspect Ratio: Selected
· Mipmap VC Panels: Selected
§ World:
· Level of Detail Radius: Max
· Tessellation Factor: Ultra
· Mesh Resolution: 5m
· Texture Resolution: 15cm
· Scenery Complexity: Dense
· Autogen Draw Distance: Very High
· Autogen Vegetation Density: Dense
· Autogen Building Density: Dense
· Water Detail: Medium (NO Reflections or Bathymetry)
· Special Effects Aircraft and Distance: Medium
§ Lighting:
· HDR Lighting: Selected
· Dynamic Reflections: Medium
· Dynamic Lighting: Selected
· Landing-lights Illuminate Ground: Selected
· Shadow Quality: Medium
· Shadow Draw Distance: High
· Shadows Cast Selected: Internal Vehicle, External Vehicle, Clouds and Terrain
· Shadows Receive Selected: Internal Vehicle, External Vehicle and Buildings
§ Weather:
· Cloud Draw Distance 60mi
· Cloud Coverage Density: Maximum
· Simple Clouds: Not Selected
· Detailed Clouds: Selected
· Volumetric Fog: Selected
· Detailed Precipitation: Selected
· Windshield Effects: Selected
· Thermal Visualization: Natural
· Enable Turbulence and thermal effects on vehicle: Selected
· Rate at which weather changes over time: No Change

o Active Sky Next:
§ General Options;
· Download Interval: 20 minutes
· Prevent Downloads while on app: Selected
§ Simulator Depiction Options;
· Suppress local weather changes: Selected
· Depict Hurricanes: Not Selected
§ Cloud Options;
· Maximum Cloud Layers: 5
· Maximum Cloud Draw Distance: 120nm
· Multi-Layer Thunderstorm: Not Selected
· Cloud Motion Effect: Selected
§ Visibility Options;
· Enable Wing Fade Effect: Selected
· Fog Layer Generation: Selected
· Maximum Surface Visibility: 75nm
· Maximum Upper Visibility: 199nm
· In Cloud visibility reduction: Selected

o Texture Direct:
§ Configuration Settings;
· Texture Resolution: 1024 for all settings
· Texter Compression Algorithm: DXT5 for all Clouds and 32bit for Wave Animation
· DirectX: DX11 for Sun Effects and Wave Animation DX10 for Water
· P3D Settings: HDR Textures Selected

o SkyForce: Only Cloud Textures are utilized
§ Weather Engine not engaged
· 3D Cloud Texture Resolution 1024x1024 with DXT5 Optimization
· Cirro-Type Cloud Texture Resolution 1024x1024 with DXT5 Optimization
· Moon Texture Resolution 1024x1024

o UTLive:
§ Configuration Flight Sim;
· Airline Density: 60%
· General Avn: 0%
· Aircraft Contrail Length: 60 Sec
§ Configuration Traffic;
· Target Frame Rate: 30 FPS
· Max Altitude ground aircraft visible: 15,000ft
· Distance to spawn ground aircraft: 15nm
· Maximum aircraft to spawn: 150acft

o Aircraft
· 737NGX
· 777
· 747 QOTS3

§ Majestic;
· Dash 8 Pilot 64bit edition

§ Aerosoft;
· F-14 Tomcat
· CRJ 700
· Huey-X Waiting Upgrade
· F-16 Falcon Waiting Upgrade

§ CLS;
· 747 HD Waiting Upgrade
· DC-10 HD Waiting Upgrade

§ AccuSim;
· C-182
· P-51 Waiting Upgrade

§ Carenado;
· B200 King Air
· EMB505 Phenom 300 with Navigraph Database
· C208
· C-182

§ Duke Turbine;
· Duke Turbine Waiting Upgrade

§ Military Viz;
· 737-200
· Bell 407

§ CeraSim;
· UH-60L

o Scenery:
· FTX Global Base
· FTX Vector
· FTX Blue USA/Canada Pacific Fords
· NA Blue Southern AK
· FTX Global North America
· NA Gold USA Northern California
· NA KEGE Eagle County
· NA PAKT Ketchikan
· NA KCGX Meigs Field
· NA KMRY Monterey Regional
· NA KTVL Lake Tahoe

§ Aerosoft;
· Mega Airport Frankfurt V3 EDDF
· Mega Airport Rome LIRF
· Mega Airport Anchorage PANC
· Mega Airport Fairbanks PAFA
· Mega Airport Sacramento KSMF Waiting Upgrade
· Mega Airport Nassau MYNN Waiting Upgrade
· Portland Maine KPWM Waiting Upgrade

§ Fly Tampa;
· Tampa KTPA
· Buffalo KBUF
· Sydney YSSN
· St. Maarten TNCM
· Dubai OMDB

§ Taxi 2 Gate;
· Hong Kong VHHH Waiting Upgrade
· Seattle KSEA
· Orlando KMCO Waiting Upgrade

§ Latin VFR;
· San Diego KSAN
· Miami KMIA
· Raleigh KRDU

§ Flight Beam;
· San Francisco KSFO
· Phoenix KPHX
· Denver KDEN
· Washington Dulles KIAD

§ FSDreamTeam;
· Chicago KORD
· John F. Kennedy KJFK
· Honolulu PHNL
· Hawaii Airports 1 and 2
· Las Vegas KLAS
· Los Angeles KLAX
· Fort Lauderdale KFLL
· Ground Services X

§ Imagine Simulations;
· Atlanta KATL
· Charlette KCLT

§ UK2000;
· London Heathrow EGLL

§ Sunny Skyjet;
· Philadelphia KPHL Waiting Upgrade

§ Wing Creation;
· Tokyo Narita RJAA Waiting Upgrade

§ Overland;
· Seoul Incheon RKSI Waiting Upgrade

§ Mega Scenery Earth V2;
· The Bulk of the Entire United States and England

o Programs:
§ Flight 1;
· UT Live
· GTN 750

· Rain Precipitation
· PMDG 737
· PMDG 777
· FREE Lightening / Thunderstorms

§ REX;
· Texture Direct with Soft Clouds
· SkyForce 3D

§ HiFi;

§ PTA;
· PTA Tweak

§ TOGA Projects;

§ On course Software;
· PFE 3

§ Pro ATC;
· Pro ATC X

§ Aerosoft;

§ FS2Crew;
· PMDG 737
· PMDG 747
· PMDG 777
· Majestic Dash 8

§ Navigation;
· Navigraph AIRAC Cycle
· Navigraph Charts (Sim-Link NOT INSTALLED)
· Avila-Soft EFB

§ Virtual Airlines;
· Vpilot
· United Virtual Airlines ACARS/SMARTCARS
· V-Route Premium
· Sim Brief
· Project Fly UK

§ Other;
· Ultimate Defrag
· Edit Voice Pack
· AdditPro P3D
· Airport Design Editor
· Track IR 5
· Fly Inside for Oculus Rift NOT INSTALLED

o Sounds:
§ Turbine Sound Studios
· 737-200/300/800 NOT INSTALLED
· 747-100/200/300/400 NOT INSTALLED
· 767-200/300 NOT INSTALLED\
§ Immersive Audio

o AI:

Posts: 5301
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: P3D Instability

Postby Martyson » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:59 pm

"I have been working over the past month and a half on completing a new build and slowly installing support programs, software, and hardware. "

Did you build the PC yourself?

After installing P3D how does it perform in its default state?
For example, how does P3D perform on a long haul flight using a default aircraft / scenery etc. before adding any add-ons?

Also posted here?:
https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopi ... 5&t=129893
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:24 pm

Re: P3D Instability

Postby kplummer » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:09 pm

Ya, I wasn't too sure which site to post it at. I did some minimal testing at the beginning to ensure stability but no major long-haul flights were conducted.

I did build it myself, and it's not my first build. The OS, CPU, GPU and MEM are all stable.

I literally took the better part of a month to install each addon one by one. Then launch P3D fly around, try different settings, monitor CPU and GPU usage and temps. I just didn't do any flights greater than say 4 hours. All of my short haul stuff, for the most part, works fine. It's the long-haul trips that continue to have issues. I am looking into my sound card settings, drivers etc right now.

Posts: 5301
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: P3D Instability

Postby Martyson » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:26 pm

Ya, I wasn't too sure which site to post it at. I did some minimal testing at the beginning to ensure stability but no major long-haul flights were conducted.

I did build it myself, and it's not my first build. The OS, CPU, GPU and MEM are all stable.

I literally took the better part of a month to install each addon one by one. Then launch P3D fly around, try different settings, monitor CPU and GPU usage and temps. I just didn't do any flights greater than say 4 hours. All of my short haul stuff, for the most part, works fine. It's the long-haul trips that continue to have issues. I am looking into my sound card settings, drivers etc right now.
Ok, no long haul flight tests in default P3D / aircraft with your home built PC.

Have you moved files from your old PC to the new PC?

You could still e.g., try a long haul test with a default P3D aircraft without add-ons running and using default scenery departure/destination airports / default weather.
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:24 pm

Re: P3D Instability

Postby kplummer » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:02 pm

All files were re-downloaded for the newest vs. I will give default a try tonight

Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:24 pm

Re: P3D Instability

Postby kplummer » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:24 am


I know there technically is no such thing as an FPS leak, it was the only thing I could think of, that might have a way to explain what I was seeing. Now with that out of the way, this is what I have done and found. I spent literally hours if not days reading through forums, watching videos, and testing and trying different results.

What really took me the most was the following video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8rc1qm5zks. I know each system is different. While the components may be the same, there are always minute and tiny details within the hardware that can cause a difference. However, I thought it might be small in terms of performance.

I have now been able to complete multiple flights with multiple settings/software (i.e. aircraft, scenery, support etc.) Now before I go into the next part, I am by no means a computer programmer, I just consider myself better than most. The following is areas that I feel may have a potential issue and finally the end result. Also, I am holding off on the P3D v4.3 update until after supporting software is able to ensure compatibility and any applicable updates that might be required.

1. Navigraph Charts uninstalled completely from system and registry and then re-installed without sim-link. I think it was causing a performance degradation with communication between the host software and the sim.

2. Stopped using AvilaSoft EFB and reverted back to Navigraph Charts for chart information and data but without symlink. I will try and do more testing to see if a problem remains for communication between EFB and P3D. However, I am curious to see how their generation two interacts with P3D.

Was having bad issues with sound stuttering, stopping etc., but no effect with, overall system and sim performance. Essentially I had to try and fly with no sound. Either an issue with PMDG, FS2Crew, P3D or Audio Software/Hardware.

3a. Uninstalled Logitech G933 Headset software, not sure if there is a compatibility issue or not.
3b. Changed audio settings from 16-bit 48000hz DVD quality to 16-bit 44100hz CD quality.
3c. Removed Surround Sound Settings and retuned headset settings to stereo mode.

Before the last two steps, I was able to monitor both my CPU and GPU. The GPU would remain relatively utilized say anywhere from 40%-60%, while the CPU was hammered on Core 0 which always maintained 100% utilization, while the other cores down to 20%-40% utilization.

4. Purchased SimStarter, built new CFG and Scenery Indexes and cleared Shaders. Adjusted the following lines on the CFG.




No Affinity Mask was utilized; NCP monitor kept at 165hz and Gysnce enabled both in Full-Screen and Windowed Mode; NI set the FPS to 35FPS, Prefer Maximum Performance and Single Monitor (all other settings are default).

5. Utilized Process Lasso to affect both affinity mask and system priority for all applications not required by either the OS, P3D or supporting programs. This, however, had no effect on core utilization.

6. Went into the BIOS to verify system integrity and Overclock. No Change, so I decided to adjust and disable Hyper-Threading.

7. I utilized the Avsim guide just in case and set Norton to exclude all P3D files, folders, and applications to include supporting programs. I also did a complete system defrag for good measure.

All test utilize 3rd Party Scenery, Aircraft, Weather, ACARS etc. No default software is utilized.

Test 1. Leave the system running for over 12 hours, with high-performance aircraft, scenery, and weather etc. No issue. Only changes to FPS was during intense weather and nighttime dynamic lighting (to be expected) FPS returned back to normal.

Test 2. Utilize PMDG 737 with short-haul flight and photo scenery only from KSFO-DEN. No issues, FPS fluctuated as needed between 30-35FPS.

Test 3. Utilize PMDG 777 from KDEN to KIAD during daytime conditions. No issues, FPS fluctuated as needed between 30-35FPS. However, after landing and during the deboarding stage, the sim just vanished straight to desktop, no CTD, no errors reported either in the P3D error log or within the event viewer in Windows Admin Settings.

Test 4. Utilize PMDG 777 from KSFO to EGLL, starting at dusk, however, the test had to be aborted due to the failure of Stabilizer. During the test, no issues and FPS fluctuated as expected due to the current environment and prevailing conditions.

Test 5. Utilize PMDG 747 from KIAD to EGLL started daytime progressed into the night and landed after dawn. FPS fluctuated as needed between 30-35FPS. 2 x hours later it's still running at EGLL with maintained 35FPS.

I think I have made significant progress. Although the one area I haven't tested yet is with Autogen back in and ORBX, which I am to work on over the next few days. I also know that certain settings need to be scaled back when required, the system can run everything all at once. But its a start and heading in the right direction. I can do things now that I have never been able to do before.

In all I was able to keep UTlive at 60% commercial and 0%GA, within the sim;
Only Ship Traffic at 20%, all other selections are False or 0%
FXAA on to help with texturing melding; TFx16; AA set to 8xMSAA night and 8xSSAA day, TR Ultra; No VSync, TB, or WWAR.
Terrain all sliders too far right, no HD res for TT; Scenery Comp Dense, no AutoGen; Water High, no Reflections or Bath, Special Effects High Both.
Dynamic Reflections Medium, Dynamic Lighting on, Landing Lights on, Lens Flare False, Shadows High for both, Shadows Cast (IV, EV, Clouds, and Terrain) Recieve (IV, EV, Buildings)
CDD 60miles; CCD Maximum, Detailed Clouds, all other selections selected.

ASN: All selections are default except Upper visibility set to 199.


In the end, not all of this was done at once. Generally one or two items would change and testing would be done. I think what did it was to disable HT. Since Core 0 has not been at 100% utilization. Just food for thought....

Again I am not a system programmer, I just consider myself better with computers than most. I invite any and all questions, feedback and constructive critisim etc. hopefully this may help others in the long run. I am very curious to see if a future vs. can take advantage of software/hardware...

Side note, almost forgot, audio drivers and system drivers were checked and updated as required. Nvidia drivers were causing their drivers to crash while P3D was running, I had to roll-back to 397.64-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql as this was the only one stable for me


Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:10 pm

Re: P3D Instability

Postby Gabe777 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:36 pm

1. Please don't tell me you are defragging SSD or nVme drives ?

2. Get rid of those cfg tweaks. Not needed, and causes problems.

3. You need to set affinity in the cfg file.

Concensus is that the first 3 proceses need their own thread, each on a different core.

10, 10, 10, 1,1 1,0. You will need to look up the mask for this arrangement, as they are calculated in reverse.

I use 244, ad I have a lowly 7700k. Using 5 threads is all you need really. Leave the spares for other processes.

So, using the above sequence means only 5 or 6 cores are then used.... Core 1 to 3, use just the first thread. Then use both threads of core 4 and 5.

The other core / threads are then used by Active Sky, the Flight1 GTN, the external FDE in the Dash 8 etc., depending on your own 3rd party addons working in the background.

Apart from that, I would be tempted to lower all your settings and aim for 60 fps minimum, rather than 30.

Lock the frames at 60 fps, with Vert Syn on and TB on. This will not waste resources.

I bet that as you are constantly running around 30 to 35, any drop takes you into stutter territory. A 15 perecent drop from 30 takes you to the low 20s !

I have 60 fps in the vc of the PMDG 747 in the air, 50 on the ground. Only time it goes lower, is at dusk or dawn with Active Sky, as I use 4xSSAA at 2K resoltion. I have a 1080 gpu. I have tweaked my settings in order to achieve this. I use Simstarter and have a dozen different profiles which allows fine tuning for scenery, plane and time of day combinations.

At the end of the day, 60 fps as a target, gives you headroom. By cranking up the settings so much, that you aim for 30, gives you no room for drops. With an 8800k and 1080ti, this is easily achievable. Drop the eye candy, and increase the performance. You cannot... have both.

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