Helicopter loss of control

Other problems or issues not covered by other troubleshooting topics.
poosd
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:36 pm

Helicopter loss of control

Postby poosd » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:58 am

I have P3DV4.5 installed, and now when flying (some) helicopters, I am losing flight control as I transition to forward flight. So far this has occurred in the CeraSim UH60L and the CeraSim Bell 222 along with the Fly Simware Bell47 and also the default LM Robinson R22. It does not occur with the Milviz MD530, the Milviz 407, the Nemeth Design/Milviz CH47 or the Milviz UH-1C or H (Hueys). I am using Saitek X55 Rhino Stick and Throttle and Pedals into powered hubs on MS Windows10.
I have checked that I have none of my other controllers (such as my Saitek yoke/throttle and Throttle Quadrant) interfering with the joystick and HOTAS controllers. They all calibrate fine in P3DV4.5 and all fixed wing aircraft also behave normally.
It is puzzling, that the helos that don't work all start up properly (the UH60 has a very in depth startup checklist) and ground taxi fine. They even get into and can stay in a hover, but as soon as I start gaining speed in forward flight I get a strange audio (like rushing wind), then I lose control in all axis. I've made some spectacular auguring in crashes trying to figure this out. Simply no regaining control after its lost. I thought that all these helos (Cera Sim UH60L, Cera Sim Bell 222 and Fly Simware Bell 47) were all certified for P3DV4+, and I could swear they were working ok under P3DV4.4. Maybe 4.5 and HF2 may be the problem, but I can't find anyone else reporting this issue, so I though I'd post here for ideas.
I am also using the latest version of VRS Tacpack for P3DV4.5, but as none of the screwy helos have weapons involved I don't think that has any involvement. Scratching my head as to why the default LM Robinson 22 has also gone bad...that ones not even an add on. Any ideas/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Dean

JorgenSA
Posts: 1364
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:17 am
Location: 5 NM NE of EDXF

Re: Helicopter loss of control

Postby JorgenSA » Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:59 am

I don't fly the helicopters myself, but I do recall a very recent thread about a similar topic, loss of control in helicopters. And, if my ailing memory is correct, there was a solution in that thread.

You might want to use the search box "Search this forum" to search for helicopters.

Jorgen
System: i7-7700K @ 4.66 GHz, ASUS Z170-A motherboard, 16 GB of 2133 MHz DDR4 RAM, nVidia GTX 960 graphics w/ 4 GB DDR5 VRAM, Thrustmaster HOTAS-X, Windows 10 Home

Martyson
Posts: 8313
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Helicopter loss of control

Postby Martyson » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:29 am

Dean,

P3D has 5 helos.
You have tested one.

Could you test the other 4 P3D helos?

Between each helo test do you reboot your PC before the next helo test?
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

ananda
Posts: 475
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:40 am
Location: Harton Village, UK

Re: Helicopter loss of control

Postby ananda » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:43 am

Between each helo test do you reboot your PC before the next helo test?
Seems a bit drastic ?

Martyson
Posts: 8313
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Helicopter loss of control

Postby Martyson » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:54 am

Between each helo test do you reboot your PC before the next helo test?
Seems a bit drastic ?
Not when troubleshooting a problem.
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

poosd
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:36 pm

Re: Helicopter loss of control

Postby poosd » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:07 pm

All,
Will try Martyson trouble shooting suggestion and report back. Strange that the ND Ch47 and the Milviz MD530 and Bell 407 work OK. Something is working right somewhere, for someone??

Dean

poosd
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:36 pm

Re: Helicopter loss of control

Postby poosd » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:50 pm

All,

Pertains to Helicopters only in P3DV4.5 Only.

Here is what I've found on my rig after 3 days of testing (your results may...and probably will vary):

Some of my stats. Window 10, P3DV4.5 w/HF2, Saitek X55 HOTAS (stick and dual throttle), Saitek yoke, throttle and separate throttle.

DISCLAIMER...I am not criticizing any of the products that I have listed/own. Nor am I trying to badmouth any developer (I respect all the hard work that they put into there products). I am looking for help from my fellow simmers in getting products that I already own to work in P3DV4.5, or, if they will not work, understand why not). It could be that a particular product has not been upgraded to 4.5 and that I have simply not found that information. Or it could be that something in my system is preventing a product from working for me. Here are the results of my informal testing:

The Milviz Bell 407 and MD530 both work fine for me, no loss of control as speed increases.

Milviz/ND CH47. Stable (as a helicopter can be) as speed increases. Seems to work fine.

Surprise??? The old ND CH53E (patch3+ not the Lockheed Martin version included in the Content section of 4.5) still starts (once you master the crazy manual engine start process), flies well and stays in control throughout the flight. Only thing not working on these birds are the lights.

Flysimware Bell47G starts, hovers well, lifts off ok, then goes completely out of control on all axis's at about 100knts. of forward airspeed. The Flysimware website says this product is cleared for all versions of P3DV4, but that is not what I'm seeing on my system. Strange thing...the Flysimware site says that the Bell 47G sounds will not work as this product was created before P3D. Something is not right here as my sounds on the Bell 47G work just fine on P3DV4.5, it just won't fly as directed over about 100knts.

All the old Virtavia helos (including the stripped down versions of the UH60's/SH60's included by Lockheed Martin in P3DV4) seem to work Ok. I also had a Virtavia model of the UH60 that I bought ages ago and it seems to work in P3DV4.5.

The more complex Cera Sim UH60-L and the Bell 222 behave just like the Flysimware Bell47G. Everything works well up through the manual start up process, engine start, lift off to hover, air taxi and departure. Then, total loss of control on all axes as airspeed goes over approximately 100knts (along with that strange accompanying audio -wind blowing sound that proceeds control loss.

Ok all you sim/computer/aviation geeks out there......Thoughts or ideas.

Thank you for you time.
Dean

poosd
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:36 pm

Re: Helicopter loss of control

Postby poosd » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:52 pm

All...

Sorry, the LM Robinson R22 also acts just like the Flysimware B47 G in my system. Strange going ons...???

Dean

Martyson
Posts: 8313
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Helicopter loss of control

Postby Martyson » Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:09 am

Just to verify, did you test the P3D defaults:?
MH-60
UH-60
S-70
CH-53E
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

poosd
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:36 pm

Re: Helicopter loss of control

Postby poosd » Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:57 pm

Hello,

Results: (Please note, I am not criticizing any developers or products, just reporting my results. This to me is starting to look to me to be a model specific problem and not a P3DV4+ issue...but who knows).

The LM supplied Robinson R22 that comes in the Content section of P3DV4+ goes out of control at 60+ knots every time I load it and try to fly it. I even tried loading one of the canned "Intro to helicopters" scenarios to see what happened. As soon as everything loaded and the narration began, the aircraft went out of control. Strange?

With the LM supplied CH53E (an limited version of a previous model made by Nemeth Designs years ago), I couldn't get it to start so I couldn't test the flight problem. Interesting note, I have the original Nemeth Design CH53E with several patches added to it (created well before P3DV4) and it starts and flies just fine on my system in P3DV4.5. It has a rather convoluted start up procedure, but once you learn the quirks, it runs and flies fine. Stranger still?

The LM supplied MH-60/SH-60/UH-60 appear to all be the same sim models. They are very limited in their system modeling, but hey...they fly and don't go out of control as airspeed increases. These are good.

Any of the old Virtavia UH-60 models stay in control as well during all phases of flight.

So here is my final list of helos that I own that are not working "on my system" with P3DV4.5:
Cera Sim UH-60L
Cera Sim Bell 222
Flysimware Bell 47G
LM Robinson R-22
LM supplied CH53E

Here are the helos that I own that do fly correctly:
Very old Nemeth Design CH53E
Old Virtavia UH-60
LM supplied UH-60/SH-60/MH-60
Milviz/ND CH47
Milviz Bell 407 and MD530

I have uninstalled the client and content section of P3DV4.5 already. No change in the problem.
I have uploaded the latest versions of the 3rd party helos that I own. No change in the problem.
I don't use FUSIP in on my system (that I know of).
My Saitek HOTAS, Stick, Yoke and Throttles all appear to be working (plug in to a powered hub).

I have a lot of 3rd party add-ons running with P3DV4.5 and have spent three days trying to see what helos do, and do not work. The only reason I put this post here in the LM P3D site is to see if anyone else is seeing similar results. As these models represent several manufactures, I thought that this would be a good place to bring up the topic for discussion. I have no idea "what's up" with this issue so please be aware, I am not pointing the finger or trying to embarrass any developer or product, and my posting here on the LM P3D forum was only done in order to get fellow simmers that use P3DV4+ and fly helicopters to let me know if they are experiencing similar issues, and if so how did you deal with the issue.

If you've been reading this post, thank you for your time.
Dean

Martyson
Posts: 8313
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Helicopter loss of control

Postby Martyson » Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:07 pm

Dean,

“With the LM supplied CH53E (an limited version of a previous model made by Nemeth Designs years ago), I couldn't get it to start so I couldn't test the flight problem.”

I think it was a Captain Sim model?

It has started and flew ok on my setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ4Irvkhdm8
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

RuTaill
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:37 pm

Re: Helicopter loss of control

Postby RuTaill » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:46 pm

Has there been a solution found for this? I am having the same issue.

Thanks in advance! :-)

jabloomf1230
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:40 pm

Re: Helicopter loss of control

Postby jabloomf1230 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:40 pm

"Loss of control" is a generic issue in P3d that's not a bug. It usually has to do with not starting the sim with the default scenario. A common cause would be this sequence:

1. Start with default scenario. Change to a third party aircraft. Save as a new scenario.
2. Open the saved scenario from #1 above. Change the aircraft to another 3rd party aircraft.

The aircraft will fly correctly for a time and then lose control. Why? The reason is usually that each 3rd party aircraft utilizes a unique set of initial conditions. These initial conditions may not make sense for a different third party aircraft. Eventually, the incorrect value for the initial condition of a variable causes a problem.

Note that not all 3rd party aircraft combinations will display this behavior. Also note that sometimes, even a stock aircraft that is provided with P3d4 will show loss of control when loaded into a non-default scenario. This issue is why most third party aircraft developers recommend starting P3d with the default scenario, then to change the aircraft and flightplan.

Martyson
Posts: 8313
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Helicopter loss of control

Postby Martyson » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:30 pm

Has there been a solution found for this? I am having the same issue.

Thanks in advance! :-)
Run through all the General Debugging Steps:
viewtopic.php?f=6312&t=123246
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)


Return to “Other Support Questions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests