[RESOLVED] P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Other problems or issues not covered by other troubleshooting topics.
Ray Proudfoot
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:19 am

[RESOLVED] P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby Ray Proudfoot » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:30 pm

Although I have P3D v4 I retain v3 for one aircraft - Concorde. Specifically FS Labs ConcordeX.

Until I bought a new PC in late 2018 my previous Windows 7 one ran fine with P3D v3 and an Nvidia 1080 card. I don't recall the drivers used. But it was stable. No crashes flying Concorde.

But with a new PC running W10 and a Nvidia 1080 Ti P3D v3 will CTD when flying Concorde. But the curious thing is there is no message from P3D and nothing in Event Viewer. I was wondering what type of CTD could cause this.

I ask because FS Labs recommend Nvidia drivers no older than 376.33 are used. The problem is the 1080 Ti cannot use them so I have to use later ones. Another Concorde user has successfully installed 382.05 but under Windows 7, not 10 that I am using. He hasn't mentioned which graphics card he's using but would that be relevant?

This is the advice taken from the FS Labs website... "You will need NVidia drivers 376.33 or older, if you are using Prepar3D v3.4.22.19868 due to a limitation in the Prepar3D graphics code causing DXGI errors."

But I'm not getting DXGI errors. The sim simply CTDs with no message. So is this driver related or perhaps something else? Any advice appreciated.
Ray (Cheshire, England).

System: P3D v4.5, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6GHz, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ 32” UHD monitor.

Martyson
Posts: 8313
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby Martyson » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:40 pm

If during testing you reboot the PC before each flight or test do you still have a problem?
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

Ray Proudfoot
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:19 am

Re: P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby Ray Proudfoot » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:45 pm

P3D is launched after the PC is booted up each day. I don't fly using other aircraft in P3D so each Concorde flight is with a clean boot and system.
Ray (Cheshire, England).

System: P3D v4.5, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6GHz, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ 32” UHD monitor.

JorgenSA
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:17 am
Location: 5 NM NE of EDXF

Re: P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby JorgenSA » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:50 pm

Ray, I may be stirring up a hornet's nest now, but here goes:

That message from FS Labs is a load of bovine by-product, pure and simple. It means that they use a non-standard way of writing to the graphics card, instead of what a proper developer should be doing (through the proper standard interfaces), and it also means that they do not care and are not willing to set things right with their product. Which should be fairly simple to do - I would love a Concorde that would fly in P3D v. 4.5....

The DXGI error usually come up when DirectX is not properly updated, or the graphics card driver is not properly updated. I have also recently seen a case where the graphics card was not properly cooled, in which case of course all sorts of errors can happen.

As for the CTD with nothing in Event Viewer, I had one of those recently, and it puzzles me to no end. I haven't tried to reproduce this yet, but I probably will over the upcoming weekend.

Jorgen
System: i7-7700K @ 4.66 GHz, ASUS Z170-A motherboard, 16 GB of 2133 MHz DDR4 RAM, nVidia GTX 960 graphics w/ 4 GB DDR5 VRAM, Thrustmaster HOTAS-X, Windows 10 Home

Martyson
Posts: 8313
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby Martyson » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:51 pm

P3D is launched after the PC is booted up each day. I don't fly using other aircraft in P3D so each Concorde flight is with a clean boot and system.
Is your P3Dv4 crashing?
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

Ray Proudfoot
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:19 am

Re: P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby Ray Proudfoot » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:55 pm

Is your P3Dv4 crashing?
No. P3D v4 is completely stable. So my system is fine except when running P3Dv3 and Concorde. FSL's advice to use a specific driver set is only because P3D will crash with the DXGI error. I've seen those and after removing Spotlights that crash never occured again.
Ray (Cheshire, England).

System: P3D v4.5, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6GHz, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ 32” UHD monitor.

Ray Proudfoot
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:19 am

Re: P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby Ray Proudfoot » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:11 pm

Ray, I may be stirring up a hornet's nest now, but here goes:

That message from FS Labs is a load of bovine by-product, pure and simple. It means that they use a non-standard way of writing to the graphics card, instead of what a proper developer should be doing (through the proper standard interfaces), and it also means that they do not care and are not willing to set things right with their product. Which should be fairly simple to do - I would love a Concorde that would fly in P3D v. 4.5....

The DXGI error usually come up when DirectX is not properly updated, or the graphics card driver is not properly updated. I have also recently seen a case where the graphics card was not properly cooled, in which case of course all sorts of errors can happen.

As for the CTD with nothing in Event Viewer, I had one of those recently, and it puzzles me to no end. I haven't tried to reproduce this yet, but I probably will over the upcoming weekend.

Jorgen
Hi Jorgen,

Yes, I accept there are issues with DXGI crashes but those are only related to FSL Spotlights which I don't have running. I will double-check to ensure there is no trace of it in the FSL Concorde installation but I'm pretty certain there isn't.

Did your CTD with no Event Viewer entry occur with P3D v3 or v4? v4 for me is totally stable with the PMDG737 plus a few other aircraft I fly. So that's why I'm certain the problem lies in P3D v3 and maybe the Concorde code but others in the FSL Concorde forum don't get this problem so it's something that appears to be on my system but I'm struggling to find what.

Can you confirm what graphics card and drivers you're using please? And if installed could you try a Concorde flight and report back?
Ray (Cheshire, England).

System: P3D v4.5, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6GHz, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ 32” UHD monitor.

JorgenSA
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:17 am
Location: 5 NM NE of EDXF

Re: P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby JorgenSA » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:17 pm

Ray,

I have only P3D v. 4.5 HF2, running on an i7-7700K with a nVidia GTX 960 card. The drivers are v. 442.19.

I also have FSX Acceleration, but that's not too relevant here.

Is the FSL Concorde freeware?

Jorgen
System: i7-7700K @ 4.66 GHz, ASUS Z170-A motherboard, 16 GB of 2133 MHz DDR4 RAM, nVidia GTX 960 graphics w/ 4 GB DDR5 VRAM, Thrustmaster HOTAS-X, Windows 10 Home

Ray Proudfoot
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:19 am

Re: P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby Ray Proudfoot » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:23 pm

Hi Jorgen,

FSL Concorde is no longer for sale and cannot be downloaded sadly. Given we have different sims the chances of you replicating my test are zero. Never mind. Thanks for your posts anyway.
Ray (Cheshire, England).

System: P3D v4.5, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6GHz, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ 32” UHD monitor.

Ray Proudfoot
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:19 am

Re: P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby Ray Proudfoot » Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:04 pm

Does Lockheed Martin provide any support on these forums or is it only customer to customer support? Very disappointed not to have any official support for purchased software.

I have a Process Monitor log that was running for a few minutes before P3D crashed. The answer probably lies in that file but I don’t have the knowledge to find the problem.
Ray (Cheshire, England).

System: P3D v4.5, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6GHz, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ 32” UHD monitor.

JorgenSA
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:17 am
Location: 5 NM NE of EDXF

Re: P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby JorgenSA » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:29 pm

Ray,

Basically L-M can only provide support on their own product - i.e. a plain-vanilla P3D installation. Once you install an add-on, the situation moves into a grey area, where it may not be so clear about who is doing what onto whom, and who therefore is responsible for supporting the customer and resolving his/her issue.

Therefore one MUST have a good, working installation of P3D without any add-ons, and this must be running stably on the Windows installation you have.

If you now install an add-on on such a well-functioning system, if there is a problem during a flight where no such problem existed before, you can with a high degree of certainty say that this newly-installed add-on is the culprit.

But, as you see when you browse these threads, many people sin and break this golden rule, myself not excluded. And suddenly the grey area has become much bigger, and it is much less clear who owns the responsibility.

In addition to this, one thing that was drilled into us from day #1 in tech support is: we only support our own product. End of story. The other product's manufacturer is not paying us to provide support for their product, and especially we are not paid to assume responsibility for whatever consequences such support (correct or not) may or may not have.

So, to wind up a probably boring statement, that is why some users who have seen and remember things, and aren't afraid to stick their noses out to help fellow flight-simmers with problems, are here and voice their opinions and recommendations.....

Jorgen

Tech support professional for more years than I care to remember
System: i7-7700K @ 4.66 GHz, ASUS Z170-A motherboard, 16 GB of 2133 MHz DDR4 RAM, nVidia GTX 960 graphics w/ 4 GB DDR5 VRAM, Thrustmaster HOTAS-X, Windows 10 Home

Ray Proudfoot
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:19 am

Re: P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby Ray Proudfoot » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:57 pm

Hi Jorgen, I can understand that policy. That’s why I uninstalled P3D v3.4 which included all my third party scenery and started again with a virgin install. So I could use my Goflight units I also installed those drivers but those have been stable for years.

I added Active Sky which injects cloud etc. and is unlikely to be the cause of the crashes. Finally, I installed GSX for pushback purposes. Once clear of airports its impact should be minimal.

The final addon was FSL Concorde as that is the only reason I still have P3D v3 installed. So it’s very difficult to fly the same route with a default aircraft but not impossible. I may have to resort to the jet provided and fly the same route to ascertain if the CTD occurs at the same position.

But with a log from Process Monitor I was hoping I could interrogate it and find the problem. I’ve been watching some YT videos to learn how to use it properly so for now I’ll try a flight with the default jet and take it from there. It’s perplexing why it will crash at the same point suggesting a file is faulty or inaccessible. I can see several entries in the log that name files but the status says NOT FOUND. But trying to find the first instance is proving difficult.
Ray (Cheshire, England).

System: P3D v4.5, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6GHz, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ 32” UHD monitor.

Ray Proudfoot
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:19 am

Re: P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby Ray Proudfoot » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:16 pm

One question I would like someone at LM to answer is this. P3D crashes with no entry in Event Viewer. Is this possible with a purely default installation? Or can it only happen with a third party addon such as an aircraft?
Ray (Cheshire, England).

System: P3D v4.5, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6GHz, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ 32” UHD monitor.

Ray Proudfoot
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:19 am

Re: P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby Ray Proudfoot » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:21 pm

The only way to identify the cause of these CTDs is to switch to a default aircraft and fly the same route. This morning I loaded the F22 Raptor and flew the route - twice. On neither occasion did P3D crash. I had the same addons as before - GoFlight drivers, GSX and Active Sky.

I'm now flying the same route in FS Labs Concorde. If it CTDs where it did yesterday then the only possible cause can be Concorde. Even though one other person on that forum has said it's fine for him. But we have different systems. I'll know within the hour.
Ray (Cheshire, England).

System: P3D v4.5, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6GHz, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ 32” UHD monitor.

Ray Proudfoot
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:19 am

Re: P3D v3.4 CTD with no entry in Event Viewer

Postby Ray Proudfoot » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:33 pm

I flew Concorde on the same route as the two Raptor flights this morning and it CTD at exactly the same position as yesterday. I've posted on the FS Labs Forum but I wonder if anyone could help with these entries in Process Monitor which I started a minute before the CTD.

All those missing file entries were when Concorde was running okay. But on a clean install why do they appear? Related to CTD?

Image
Ray (Cheshire, England).

System: P3D v4.5, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6GHz, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ 32” UHD monitor.


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