Invisible Object during Flare

Other problems or issues not covered by other troubleshooting topics.
IncreaseVS
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 11:58 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby IncreaseVS » Fri May 10, 2019 2:48 am

C130 28L approach test P3Dv4.5


https://youtu.be/7h4EdfeMJ9Q
Hello Sir,

I appreciate your troubling shooting steps and the time you took to make your video. Upon close inspection of your scenery, it appears that you are using a lower (higher numerically) mesh resolution. In my currently scenery, P3D 4.5, with the mesh resolution setting at 1 meter, where our seawalls end and begin appear slightly differently. The only other possibility why ours are not matching are due to different versions of P3D scenery.

The problem exists on a wide basis of users using "heavy" aircraft. It is unfortunate that P3d has not fixed this yet.

Thank You!

Regards

Martyson
Posts: 5673
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby Martyson » Fri May 10, 2019 3:11 am

C130 28L approach test P3Dv4.5


https://youtu.be/7h4EdfeMJ9Q
Hello Sir,

I appreciate your troubling shooting steps and the time you took to make your video. Upon close inspection of your scenery, it appears that you are using a lower (higher numerically) mesh resolution. In my currently scenery, P3D 4.5, with the mesh resolution setting at 1 meter, where our seawalls end and begin appear slightly differently. The only other possibility why ours are not matching are due to different versions of P3D scenery.

The problem exists on a wide basis of users using "heavy" aircraft. It is unfortunate that P3d has not fixed this yet.

Thank You!

Regards
You are welcome.

You might want to give the General debugging steps a try and test again with the C-130:
http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2&t=123246

Note:
There are a few free video recording programs available on the internet.
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

TheFl4me
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby TheFl4me » Fri May 10, 2019 3:35 pm

C130 28L approach test P3Dv4.5


https://youtu.be/7h4EdfeMJ9Q
Judging by that coastline you are using a terrain mesh res of >10m which as mentioned before is the only way to avoid this bug so far so your result is not surprising. also you're above the glideslope (3 white 1 red) which also helps.

I can also confirm (as I did at the beginning of this thread if i recall correctly) that general debugging doesnt solve this.
Tristan Hancock

IncreaseVS
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 11:58 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby IncreaseVS » Fri May 10, 2019 5:09 pm

C130 28L approach test P3Dv4.5


https://youtu.be/7h4EdfeMJ9Q
Judging by that coastline you are using a terrain mesh res of >10m which as mentioned before is the only way to avoid this bug so far so your result is not surprising. also you're above the glideslope (3 white 1 red) which also helps.

I can also confirm (as I did at the beginning of this thread if i recall correctly) that general debugging doesnt solve this.
Thanks! I was hesitating to spend the couple hours of labor to do something that wouldn't work... I guess it would appear that I need to buy a more detailed mesh to over come what seems like a resolution issue?


I sent an email to the payware mesh maker to see if he could confirm this as fixed with his mesh. I'll keep you updated.

It shouldn't have to be this way though and I believe Lockheed Martin needs to provide a solution... However it would appear that their lack of acknowledgement for the problem doesn't provide hope for its fix.

Regards,

TheFl4me
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby TheFl4me » Fri May 10, 2019 5:16 pm

C130 28L approach test P3Dv4.5


https://youtu.be/7h4EdfeMJ9Q
Judging by that coastline you are using a terrain mesh res of >10m which as mentioned before is the only way to avoid this bug so far so your result is not surprising. also you're above the glideslope (3 white 1 red) which also helps.

I can also confirm (as I did at the beginning of this thread if i recall correctly) that general debugging doesnt solve this.
Thanks! I was hesitating to spend the couple hours of labor to do something that wouldn't work... I guess it would appear that I need to buy a more detailed mesh to over come what seems like a resolution issue?


I sent an email to the payware mesh maker to see if he could confirm this as fixed with his mesh. I'll keep you updated.

It shouldn't have to be this way though and I believe Lockheed Martin needs to provide a solution... However it would appear that their lack of acknowledgement for the problem doesn't provide hope for its fix.

Regards,
I doubt a payware mesh will fix this since this bug was present before and after I purchased orbx vector/norcal etc... It would probably have to flatten out the entire terrain/coast edge which would be unrealisitc so they wouldnt do that of their own free will.

FYI as mentioned at the beginning this bug also occurs with the payware Justsim ELLX on approach to 1 side of the rwy (I forget which) because the developer has put a small "hole" with a container of some sort near the approach end (see my previous screenshots) which causes the same effect. This has brought me to the conclusion that water is not a factor but rather p3ds terrain collision logic with sharp terrain edges or "cliffs" as you mentioned.

However if it does work against all odds keep us posted.
Tristan Hancock

Martyson
Posts: 5673
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby Martyson » Sun May 12, 2019 7:37 pm

I did two tests at KSFO ILS 28L. I wanted to see what happens on my current P3Dv4.5 setup.
One test with the PMDG747 (I am learning it now).
One test with the PMDG737-600.

I did an autoland with each.

The PMDG747 hit the "wall" [notice the VASI], did not flare (PFD) and it was a hard landing.

The PMDG737 did a normal autoland with flare and rollout.

I took a few screenshots of each approach.



The PMDG 747 screenshots:

Image

Image

Image

Image

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The PMDG 737 screenshots:

Check the VASI vs PFD / ILS / Radio altitude

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

TheFl4me
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby TheFl4me » Sun May 12, 2019 8:10 pm

I did two tests at KSFO ILS 28L. I wanted to see what happens on my current P3Dv4.5 setup.
One test with the PMDG747 (I am learning it now).
One test with the PMDG737-600.

I did an autoland with each.

The PMDG747 hit the "wall" [notice the VASI], did not flare (PFD) and it was a hard landing.

The PMDG737 did a normal autoland with flare and rollout.
Well it would seem we finally share results, good news.
Tristan Hancock

IncreaseVS
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 11:58 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby IncreaseVS » Mon May 13, 2019 10:14 am

I did two tests at KSFO ILS 28L. I wanted to see what happens on my current P3Dv4.5 setup.
One test with the PMDG747 (I am learning it now).
One test with the PMDG737-600.

I did an autoland with each.

The PMDG747 hit the "wall" [notice the VASI], did not flare (PFD) and it was a hard landing.

The PMDG737 did a normal autoland with flare and rollout.
Well it would seem we finally share results, good news.
Excellent! I'm glad to hear that we share the same results!

https://vimeo.com/335744883

I use a couple of Orbx products and successfully made a video for their forum to see if there was anything they could do about it.

Regards,

TheFl4me
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby TheFl4me » Mon May 13, 2019 10:32 am

I did two tests at KSFO ILS 28L. I wanted to see what happens on my current P3Dv4.5 setup.
One test with the PMDG747 (I am learning it now).
One test with the PMDG737-600.

I did an autoland with each.

The PMDG747 hit the "wall" [notice the VASI], did not flare (PFD) and it was a hard landing.

The PMDG737 did a normal autoland with flare and rollout.
Well it would seem we finally share results, good news.
Excellent! I'm glad to hear that we share the same results!

https://vimeo.com/335744883

I use a couple of Orbx products and successfully made a video for their forum to see if there was anything they could do about it.

Regards,
The issue is not orbx related. When i began this thread I did not own any orbx products or any mesh altering product (I do now and the results didnt change). I got the same „wall“ with the default scenery at SFO.
Tristan Hancock

Martyson
Posts: 5673
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby Martyson » Mon May 13, 2019 4:54 pm

Follow up:

I took a look at KSFO 28L when AI are landing.
No problems.

Also, one screenshot of PMDG737, autoland.
No problems.

Orbx Global , NA, SOCA / Flightbeam KSFO

Image

Image

Image
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

TheFl4me
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby TheFl4me » Mon May 13, 2019 5:44 pm

Follow up:

I took a look at KSFO 28L when AI are landing.
No problems.

Also, one screenshot of PMDG737, autoland.
No problems.

Orbx Global , NA, SOCA / Flightbeam KSFO
I have no experience with AI traffic but as a developer I assume they wouldnt be affected by such a terrain artifacts since they (AI tfc) are only textures and not actual objects aka no collision detection and all that, then again Ive never worked with AI tfc before so I could be completely wrong.

In my case the 737 has been hit or miss (hence the initial confusion we had at the beginning of this thread a few months back where I was getting different results) I dont know why although I do have a few theories:

- The pmdg 737 was released way earlier than the current 777/47 and QW 787 so older code and maybe it has a different/older way of detecting collisions than the above mentioned aircraft.
- Out of the 4 aircraft it is the smallest so maybe its size (tail clearance etc) is a factor.
Tristan Hancock

Martyson
Posts: 5673
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby Martyson » Mon May 13, 2019 7:44 pm

I wonder, in addition to no problems with the AI traffic and my PMDG737 (autoland) KSFO ILS28L if:

Pilots flying On-line or MultiPlayer have the wall problem at all airports with an elevation dip on approach?
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

TheFl4me
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby TheFl4me » Mon May 13, 2019 7:52 pm

I wonder, in addition to no problems with the AI traffic and my PMDG737 (autoland) KSFO ILS28L if:

Pilots flying On-line or MultiPlayer have the wall problem at all airports with an elevation dip on approach?
Im afraid I dont quite understand what you mean. I myself always fly online via Vatsim but I dont see how this would affect the terrain collision logic of p3d?
Tristan Hancock

Martyson
Posts: 5673
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby Martyson » Mon May 13, 2019 8:00 pm

I wonder, in addition to no problems with the AI traffic and my PMDG737 (autoland) KSFO ILS28L if:

Pilots flying On-line or MultiPlayer have the wall problem at all airports with an elevation dip on approach?
Im afraid I dont quite understand what you mean. I myself always fly online via Vatsim but I dont see how this would affect the terrain collision logic of p3d?
The reason I asked is because I am not flying (VATsim/Pilot Edge) on-line or multi-player so wanted to verify all are seeing the same "wall" hard landing e.g., at KSFO ILS28L?
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

IncreaseVS
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 11:58 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby IncreaseVS » Mon May 13, 2019 10:09 pm

I wonder, in addition to no problems with the AI traffic and my PMDG737 (autoland) KSFO ILS28L if:

Pilots flying On-line or MultiPlayer have the wall problem at all airports with an elevation dip on approach?
Im afraid I dont quite understand what you mean. I myself always fly online via Vatsim but I dont see how this would affect the terrain collision logic of p3d?
The reason I asked is because I am not flying (VATsim/Pilot Edge) on-line or multi-player so wanted to verify all are seeing the same "wall" hard landing e.g., at KSFO ILS28L?
I've never played online. This occurs at both 28 L/R regardless of ILS if you are following the glideslope. Default AC-130 as well.

There's got to be parameters of the size of plane effected (if it is not to do with individual coding). For example, the 737 clears just fine following the glide-slope. I know the A320 is slightly taller perhaps if someone owns this aircraft they could try it.

Perhaps the 727 would be affected by this glitch as well.


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