Invisible Object during Flare

Other problems or issues not covered by other troubleshooting topics.
Martyson
Posts: 5419
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby Martyson » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:10 pm

KSFO-FlightBeam/Orbx-Global-ILS28R-APR-test P3Dv4.3 ok.

https://youtu.be/E14u1pTUOxQ
Strange I was able to land with the Raptor aswell just now, I assumed that it did not have anything to do with addon aircraft since it happens to all my addon aircraft no matter from which developer (pmdg/qualitywings/fslabs...)

Do u perhaps have access to a pmdg/qw/fslabs aircraft? and if so could u do the same approach into SFO again?
Glad to hear there are no problems with your default P3D setup.

As for myself and PMDG, QW, FSlabs............

I have been flying PMDG for many years.
I have flown QW but it has been several years since my last QW install in any of my flight sims.
I have never purchased from FSLabs.

Can u do a video of your problem with P3Dv4.3 and PMDG approach/landing at KSFO?
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

TheFl4me
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby TheFl4me » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:25 pm

KSFO-FlightBeam/Orbx-Global-ILS28R-APR-test P3Dv4.3 ok.

https://youtu.be/E14u1pTUOxQ
Strange I was able to land with the Raptor aswell just now, I assumed that it did not have anything to do with addon aircraft since it happens to all my addon aircraft no matter from which developer (pmdg/qualitywings/fslabs...)

Do u perhaps have access to a pmdg/qw/fslabs aircraft? and if so could u do the same approach into SFO again?
Glad to hear there are no problems with your default P3D setup.

As for myself and PMDG, QW, FSlabs............

I have been flying PMDG for many years.
I have flown QW but it has been several years since my last QW install in any of my flight sims.
I have never purchased from FSLabs.

Can u do a video of your problem with P3Dv4.3 and PMDG approach/landing at KSFO?
Yes but it will have to wait until tomorrow (not home). Could you in the meantime do a video with your pmdg aircraft (lets try a large one like the 777 or 747 just to make sure incase size is a factor).
I definitely will post a video tomorrow. lets both follow these conditions in the video:

- ILS cat3 autoland on RWY 28L
- mesh res of 1m
- pmdg 747 or 777
- Virtual cockpit + outside view

On a side note, i find it strange that ALL major developer addon aircraft seem to be affected even though they are each made by different developers that have nothing to do with eachother.
I can already see the chaos if there is a problem internally because most likely everybody is going to blame the other
(p3d says its pmdgs fault and pmdg will say its p3ds fault) and in the end nothing will be done about it...
Tristan Hancock

TheFl4me
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby TheFl4me » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:41 am

OK, here is the video:

https://youtu.be/dICqfCQkcZk

for some reason during the cat3 approach nothing happend (maybe slightly above the "wall"?, idk)

so in the second attempt i attempted a manual landing where i flew slightly below the glideslope but with still enough tail clearence, (this example is extreme and erratic, the "ground slam" has happend to me before when i wasperfectly on the glideslope).

mesh res was 1m.
Tristan Hancock

Martyson
Posts: 5419
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby Martyson » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:19 am

OK, here is the video:

https://youtu.be/dICqfCQkcZk

for some reason during the cat3 approach nothing happend (maybe slightly above the "wall"?, idk)

so in the second attempt i attempted a manual landing where i flew slightly below the glideslope but with still enough tail clearence, (this example is extreme and erratic, the "ground slam" has happend to me before when i wasperfectly on the glideslope).

mesh res was 1m.
In your first post you mentioned the problem happens when "you are using a mesh resolution of <19m (5m, 2m, 1m)"
Why did you go to a mesh res. of 1m for the test?
What happens when you use 5m (that is my setting, as I previously mentioned).


Also, your initial post did hot mention using e.g. 747's?
Is the problem supposed to happen with all aircraft?
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

TheFl4me
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby TheFl4me » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:37 am

OK, here is the video:

https://youtu.be/dICqfCQkcZk

for some reason during the cat3 approach nothing happend (maybe slightly above the "wall"?, idk)

so in the second attempt i attempted a manual landing where i flew slightly below the glideslope but with still enough tail clearence, (this example is extreme and erratic, the "ground slam" has happend to me before when i wasperfectly on the glideslope).

mesh res was 1m.
In your first post you mentioned the problem happens when "you are using a mesh resolution of <19m (5m, 2m, 1m)"
Why did you go to a mesh res. of 1m for the test?
What happens when you use 5m (that is my setting, as I previously mentioned).


Also, your initial post did hot mention using e.g. 747's?
Is the problem supposed to happen with all aircraft?
in one of my previous comments i describe how the problem persists as long as the "sharp edge" is pressent between terrain and water, and not a gradual blurred line (i posted screenshot examples). any mesh res setting below 19m and it will be a "sharp edge" and the porblem persists. I tested this extensively.

In my example i used a mesh res of 1m because as long as that deosnt work i do not consider the problem "fixed" since users should be able to freely choose which mesh res to use + as i said it makes no difference which mesh res i use as long as its below 19m in the case of KSFO.
I assumed that it did not have anything to do with addon aircraft since it happens to all my addon aircraft no matter from which developer (pmdg/qualitywings/fslabs...)
It doesnt seem to happen with p3d default aircraft, although i cannot tell if this is due to their small size since p3d default aircraft only consist of GA and military aircraft (they might be too small hence a smaller hitbox which unlike an airliner might cause them to overfly the "wall") or the way they are coded.

But as mentioned before this happens to all my addon aircraft which consists of the following:

PMDG 737/747/777
QW 787
FSlabs A320

I used the 747 in the video since it is the largest out of all of them but i could have just aswell used the 737.

I would just like to point out that I have been playing with/testing this bug for over a month now with all kinds of rendering settings aircraft etc. I only recently decided to make a post about it since i wasnt getting any solutions. I dont want this to seem like a typical "rage post" where as soon as something pops up the user makes a thread about it. without any testing on his own
Tristan Hancock

Martyson
Posts: 5419
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby Martyson » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:34 am

Test flight KSFO video flying the approach/final too low.

Note: My Options for all flights have Mesh Resolution 5m and Crash Detect OFF.


https://youtu.be/b5Y5KQU0Rm4
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

TheFl4me
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby TheFl4me » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:35 pm

Test flight KSFO video flying the approach/final too low.

Note: My Options for all flights have Mesh Resolution 5m and Crash Detect OFF.


https://youtu.be/b5Y5KQU0Rm4
Is that an addon aircraft? i cant tell.

if it is a default aircraft then it having no issues is what I would have expected since the other default aircraft dont have issues either.

You mentioned you flew pmdg for years. Would it be possible for you to attempt this with a pmdg aircraft please? that way we can establish if this is cause by a correlation between pmdg/qw/fslabs and p3d or if the problem lies elsewhere.
Tristan Hancock

Martyson
Posts: 5419
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby Martyson » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:52 pm

"Is that an addon aircraft? i cant tell."

Yes, the aircraft is a payware Aerosoft Beaver.
All other payware aircraft I have used into KSFO (FlightBeam) have had no problems just like your video with the 747 (first approach and landing).

I have no idea what you did to show the problem in your second (hand flown) approach.

Again, is the problem supposed to happen with all aircraft?
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

TheFl4me
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby TheFl4me » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:00 pm

"Is that an addon aircraft? i cant tell."

Yes, the aircraft is a payware Aerosoft Beaver.
All other payware aircraft I have used into KSFO (FlightBeam) have had no problems just like your video with the 747 (first approach and landing).

I have no idea what you did to show the problem in your second (hand flown) approach.

Again, is the problem supposed to happen with all aircraft?
all i did was a low approach with the 747 just like u did with the beaver. nothing more nothing less. its like i described it, its like an invisible wall that doesnt move which as soon as i "hit" it i will be slammed to the ground.

Yes as I said previously, on my end this problem happens with all non-default aircraft that i posess (pmdg/qw/fslabs).
All other payware aircraft I have used into KSFO (FlightBeam) have had no problems
So you confirm that you recently attempted this low approach with a pmdg aircraft and nothing happend?
Tristan Hancock

Martyson
Posts: 5419
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby Martyson » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:19 pm

"So you confirm that you recently attempted this low approach with a pmdg aircraft and nothing happend?"

I normally do not do intentional low approaches.
I do normal ILS approaches and normally disconnect the autopilot while on final.

All of my test flights are done with aircraft that do not take much time to set up for a test flight.

Do a video in the PMDG 737 using Mesh Resolution 5m and give me the set up information you use for the test flight and I will do the same flight into KSFO.

Include close ups of the FMC data in your video:
Px, fuel, GW
Route
Approach in use
Approach weight / speed / flaps
Approach setup : autoland or manual
Verify your altitude at the time of the event.
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

TheFl4me
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby TheFl4me » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:26 pm

"So you confirm that you recently attempted this low approach with a pmdg aircraft and nothing happend?"

I normally do not do intentional low approaches.
I do normal ILS approaches and normally disconnect the autopilot while on final.

All of my test flights are done with aircraft that do not take much time to set up for a test flight.

Do a video in the PMDG 737 using Mesh Resolution 5m and give me the set up information you use for the test flight and I will do the same flight into KSFO.

Include close ups of the FMC data in your video:
Px, fuel, GW
Route
Approach in use
Approach weight / speed / flaps
Approach setup : autoland or manual
Verify your altitude at the time of the event.
Ok for some reason suddenly the 737 decided it no longer is affected by this problem when the mesh res is set to 5m (i did a flight before with 2m and it got slammed into the ground) heaven knows why it still was affected last week. In the video you can see me activating ActiveSky after the first attempt with the 737, i was trying to see if that was a possible cause, it was not.

so i decided without closing the simulator to redo the same thing in the larger 777 and the 777 was infact slammed into the ground. all this is in the following video, uncut so u can see exactly what i did.

fast forward to the important parts, timestamps in the description of the video.
(I did low approaches below the GS on purpose)

https://youtu.be/-plWAfAxsXY

IMPORTANT:
while editing this video I noticed a difference between our shorelines at ksfo.

my shoreline:
Image

your shoreline:
Image

Notice how your shoreline begins exactly at the rwy with the little road distorted while mine looks more "natural". I double checked, while taking this screenshot is was at a mesh res of 5m. Why do we have so different looking shorelines? is this maybe a reason why you never experienced this issue while i have?

Do you have FTX Vector installed or anything similar that might alter the elevation?
Tristan Hancock

Martyson
Posts: 5419
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby Martyson » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:55 pm

Very low (abnormal/unsafe/go around any other day!), test approach KSFO ILS28R for forum feedback.

https://youtu.be/Fl6h0BVN3Zg
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

TheFl4me
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby TheFl4me » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:04 pm

Very low (abnormal/unsafe/go around any other day!), test approach KSFO ILS28R for forum feedback.

https://youtu.be/Fl6h0BVN3Zg
do you have the 777 or 747 from pmdg, cause for whatever reason now as i mentioned the 737 now works for me aswell at a mesh res of 5m (it still slams at a mesh res of 2m), the 777 and 747 are still the ons that consistently slam into the ground.

I also want to point out thsi again:
IMPORTANT:
while editing this video I noticed a difference between our shorelines at ksfo.

my shoreline:
Image

your shoreline:
Image

Notice how your shoreline begins exactly at the rwy with the little road distorted while mine looks more "natural". I double checked, while taking this screenshot is was at a mesh res of 5m. Why do we have so different looking shorelines? is this maybe a reason why you never experienced this issue while i have?

Do you have FTX Vector installed or anything similar that might alter the elevation?

Any idea what could be causing this?
Tristan Hancock

Martyson
Posts: 5419
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby Martyson » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:34 pm

My previous flights into KSFO show no problems with P3Dv4.3, P3Dv4.3 default aircraft F22, payware aircraft (Aerosoft Beaver, Alabeo PA31, RealAir Dule v2, PMDG 737, PMDG777), FlightBeam or Orbx.

Your initial post and current testing criteria is constantly changing as well as your overall test results.

Other pilots with your PC setup, Add-ons, software mix and testing parameters (including using various Mesh Resolutions, injecting Active Sky and changing P3D aircraft without rebooting PC between test flights?) may be able to provide additional support.
Best Regards,
Vaughan Martell (KDTW)

TheFl4me
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Invisible Object during Flare

Postby TheFl4me » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:02 pm

My previous flights into KSFO show no problems with P3Dv4.3, P3Dv4.3 default aircraft F22, payware aircraft (Aerosoft Beaver, Alabeo PA31, RealAir Dule v2, PMDG 737, PMDG777), FlightBeam or Orbx.

Your initial post and current testing criteria is constantly changing as well as your overall test results.
I am well aware of what this looks like. And trust me I am just as confused as you are as to why I am suddenly able to land the 737 at 5m mesh res.

As to the changing testing criteria, how else is one supposed to troubleshoot a problem? elminating factors and testing all possible variables one by one is the only way (that i know of) to get a good picture of something.
infact i have still have a bunch of differences i can see between our 2 systems that may or may not be factors.

- the unexplained terrain difference on the shoreline between our simulators (see screenshots above)
- the difference in our hardware
- you using windows 98 (judging be your video) and me windows 10
[...]


I strongly disagree with the fact that my overall test results have changed. In the case of the 737 the usable mesh res may have changed from 19 to 5 but that still leaves every other addon aircraft i have from 3 different developers unusable at certain major airports.


If there is a bug in the simulator that prevents me to land with any of my addon aircraft at certain airports with rendering settings of my choice, and if that exact bug has been reported on several other forums before dating back to 2011 and still not been fixed then I consider that pretty outrageous if you ask me.

I honestly do apologize if it seems like i am venting my anger at you here, i truly am grateful for your attempt at helping me and you are not at fault. I am angry at LM, I feel like i am being ignored by their staff for an issue that is flat out preventing me from using a major aspect of one of their products even though i believe i have gone into exstensive detail as to what it is i am experiencing.

I fully understand that there isnt a "magic solution" that a forum admin could give me, but not even posting a single comment after a week and 600 views (meanwhile 90% of all others threads are getting frequent responses) is almost insulting.
Tristan Hancock


Return to “Other Support Questions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 5 guests